Day 16 – so tired, and nothing is as expected

[Christine H]

Hello everyone, I’m on day 16 of my first Whole30 and I’ve been pretty desperate for a few days, because I’m feeling so tired and so much worse than before I started! Also, every day has been different from what I expected (i.e. the timeline).

I used to be pretty much carb driven. I did eat a relatively healthy diet, with more veg than average, and less junkfood than average, but I don’t think I ever ate enough protein and fat in my life. I was a vegetarian for seven years from my teens onwards, but I’d just leave out the meat and eat potatoes and vegetables for dinner, for instance.

So, the first couple of days of my Whole30, I was fully expecting carb flu and huge cravings (I quit sugar at least once before and the first days were awful craving-wise). But the first days were actually fine! I felt fine, quite happy, and had only few cravings. And so far I haven't really missed any of the things I'm not eating, either.

But lately I’ve been getting more tired, I haven’t got the energy to exercise anymore (before Whole30, I sometimes wouldn’t feel like exercising, but I nearly always had enough energy), and I’m hungry all the time. I know what you’re going to say: eat more protein and fat. But I feel like I may be one of those people who do better on several smaller meals a day. My stomach seems to have only two options: stuffed or starving, with little in between. I eat to bursting at most meals because I really don’t want to be hungry for hours, but I just don’t seem able to eat enough in one sitting! So there only seem to be two options now: either I eat to bursting but with slightly too little fat and protein, and then I’m okay for two hours, but starving afterwards. Or I eat to bursting with enough protein and fat, and then I feel tired and unpleasantly stuffed for two hours and am fine after that… I never seem to feel pleasantly satiated for 3-4 hours. (On day 3 I really ate protein, and possibly even fat, by the book, but I felt too full all day, and really like I was overeating. That can’t be the intention, surely?)

I hope this story makes sense. Any ideas would be appreciated! It really feels like a weight loss diet now, and I know it isn’t supposed to be! Also, I don’t think I’m losing any weight. I didn’t weigh myself, not even before I started, but visually I haven’t lost any. And I’m still bloated. (And no, I’m not about to have my period!)

[sweetcee]

Hi Christine- nice name, it’s mine as well

I’m sorry you’re feeling this way. Could you post a sample of things you’ve been eating? It is helpful for people to see that to give feedback and pointers. 

I just finished a w30 on 3/30 and I know the recommended meal template, especially at breakfast, was something I had to work up to. But again, you’ll get better feedback by sharing a little more context.

[Christine H]

Hi Christine, thanks ;).

On the first couple of days I had: breakfast: monkey salad (30 g nuts, 20 g grated coconut and 1 banana); lunch: spinach frittata from the W30 book; dinner: an oven dish with 200g sweet potato mash, 225g grilled veg, 37 ml coconut milk and about 80g minced beef. I know that this isn't enough protein officially (mainly my breakfast), but I felt fine, satiated and with few cravings.

On day 3 I had: breakfast: spinach frittata from the book; lunch: 170g of tuna steak and soup with 200 g of veg and 10 ml evoo; dinner: chicken chowder from the book with 130 g chicken thigh. Snacks: 1 apple, tomatoes, 25 g nuts and a mandarin. I have no trouble not overeating on (raw, unsalted) nuts. I wrote down that this day the meals really felt like too much, although that does make me wonder why I had several snacks. Eh, right, probably because even though they felt like too much, they didn't keep me satiated.

Yesterday, day 15, I started paying more attention to how much fat I ate (and tried to increase it), and had: breakfast at 9.45 AM: frittata, after which I felt stuffed. 11:50: a bit hungry. 13:20: a Nakd-bar and a salad consisting of two handfuls spinach, 100g shrimp, 1 tomato, 1 avocado and about 1 tbsp mayonaise; this really felt like too much but I finished it. After that I was super tired. I did still feel full at 5 PM, but at 6 PM I was very hungry again. 7 PM: hamburger with portobello 'bun' and mayo, spinach. I was peckish again by 9 PM, but not extremely hungry, and about the same at 11 PM.

[Christine H]

I had a couple of days on which I didn't manage to plan my meals in advance, so I struggled with what on earth I could eat. But that's another thing - when I'm stuffed I can't plan because every meal I think of makes me almost nauseous, and when I'm starving I'm so desperate I can't think straight. Rolleyes.

Perhaps I should add that I have Hashimoto's, so probably a lower metabolism than most people.

[SugarcubeOD]

Hey there - sorry you're not feeling well.  Unfortunately listing out food in grams and millileters is not helpful for us to troubleshoot. - we use the template measurements so how does the amount of protein you're eating relate to your own palm size?  You can google 'whole30 meal template' if you've not seen it yet.

I CAN tell you that the naked bars, monkey salads, nuts and fruit are the first things we would recommend you remove and replace with a better composed meal that matches the template.  Every meal should be protein (1-2 of your own palm's thickness x width x length - or as many whole eggs as you can hold in one hand without dropping).  Veggies should be a full plate - that's usually about 2-3 cups.  You can add a fist sized serving of starchy carb to this as well at least once a day or more if you're particularly active, someone who may be approaching or on their period or a person that suffers with mild mood disorders.  Then we want you to add fat - check the template for the recommendations on fat depending on which fat source you choose.  Usually we suggest not counting the cooking fat because it's split between portions, much is left in the pan and some gets cooked off.

How do the meals you listed above match up with the template and what I"ve just written above?

Having Hashimotos is a significant piece of information as you're unfortunately kind of starting behind the eight ball when you have an auto immune condition.

One comment about being 'stuffed'.  Bloating can feel like 'stuffed' and then you're hungry soon and needing snacks.  Removing the nuts and nakd bars and fruit is going to help that immensely.  It's not to say you can never have these things again but lets shelve them until you get your meals sorted so that you're comfortabley going 4-5 hours between meals and not feeling like you're going to barf if you have to consider what to make for dinner.

[Christine H]

Hi Sugarcube, thanks for your reply.

I've been trying to match the template. I didn't put the minced beef on my palm to see what size it was, so grams seemed clearer to me. Also because I have read that 'palm sized' is approximately 4-6 ounces. So the mincemeat was a bit less than that, but the tuna steak was exactly my palm size, even the same shape, and the chicken thighs were palm sized too.

I do have a bit of a problem with the whole palm size idea. I have rather large hands for a woman. In fact, my husband and I have exactly the same size hands! But he is 15 cm taller than me, and definitely needs more food than me. Also, if I spread my fingers I can easily hold 6 eggs!

I've only had monkey salads occasionally, and mostly combined with an egg and 100g of veg. Also, I've only had Nakd bars a few times, only with meals or other non-carby additions, and not to satisfy sugar cravings. Fruit is also with meals.

I do think your remark on starchy veg may be crucial to me, as I have more than mild mood disorders (i.e. depression). I find it strange that I didn't read anything on the importance of starchy veg until I came across it in another blog post yesterday. I read the W30 book from cover to cover (well, except for all the recipes) and it didn't become clear to me at all that I had to eat at least a portion of starchy veg each day, and more because of my depression. I thought they were tolerated, but nothing more! So I definitely haven't been having a portion a day; more like one every other day. Perhaps that is why I've been getting so desperate (to the point of having suicidal thoughts) when I'm hungry. I don't think I've ever had that happen before (when hungry, I mean) and it's been really hard to deal with. But if I have more starchy veg, won't my body remain used to metabolizing sugar instead of fat?

Your bloating remark also makes me think. I regularly feel like I'm hungry and stuffed at the same time, but I thought that wasn't possible and I was just wrongly interpreting the way my stomach felt. However, being bloated and hungry at the same time is possible, so that could be what has been going on. If I can't have nuts I really don't know what to eat in between meals that won't spike my blood sugar, though... Nuts were going to be my go-to high calorie food on W30, until I read that they weren't considered great. So I've already limited them.

The only time my belly looks quite alright is just after getting up. As soon as I've eaten anything, it protrudes. Just the lower part though; my stomach always remains flat. Which could also be a sign that the problem isn't my stomach being overly full. I had this problem before W30, but assumed it was caused by eating gluten, dairy or legumes. I do find it strange that it's still the same now I've eliminated all those. My belly does feel better now, though! It's less tense when I press it, and I haven't had abdominal pain.

[Christine H]

Update: now on day 20; I added starchy vegetables to most meals for two days, and didn't eat nuts and fruit, and especially the starch seemed to help very much, as I felt upbeat and had energy again. But now I'm drained again, although that could be due to my cat waking me up several times last night. However, if I had tiger blood right now, shouldn't I be resistant to that sort of thing?

I am still finding it really hard to know what to eat as a snack (I thought I'd just by meat that is meant to put on bread, but all but one had either cane sugar, honey or rice (?!) in them...), and to add enough fat to my meals. I don't like avocado that much, though I do eat them regularly now. I made mayo, which did make my meals much nicer, but it doesn't go with everything.

You said I'm "starting behind the eight ball" due to having Hashimoto's. Does that mean I can't really expect any good results? Will there be a point to doing the reintroduction? And did I "start behind the eight ball" even if I haven't got that many symptoms from Hashimoto's? Typically it leads to weight gain, hair loss and lack of energy, but it doesn't seem to affect me that way.

[sweetcee]

4 hours ago, Christine H said:

 

Update: now on day 20; I added starchy vegetables to most meals for two days, and didn't eat nuts and fruit, and especially the starch seemed to help very much, as I felt upbeat and had energy again. But now I'm drained again, although that could be due to my cat waking me up several times last night. However, if I had tiger blood right now, shouldn't I be resistant to that sort of thing?

I am still finding it really hard to know what to eat as a snack (I thought I'd just by meat that is meant to put on bread, but all but one had either cane sugar, honey or rice (?!) in them...), and to add enough fat to my meals. I don't like avocado that much, though I do eat them regularly now. I made mayo, which did make my meals much nicer, but it doesn't go with everything.

 

If you don’t sleep well, you may still feel tired. It took until the last few days of my w30 to sleep really, truly well.

Fats! Ok, I can help here; I’m allergic to avo and don’t love mayo. Do you like olives? I will eat olives at anytime of day. I drizzle ghee on veg after cooking (not a lot, but enough that I taste it). There are w30 approved dressings you can use on salads or as dips. I will sprinkle shredded or flakes coconut on things like soup or veg or eat a handful with a meal. I found that even if things didn’t “go” together, I could eat olives after my lunch “entree” so to speak. You could make a chimichurri or pesto to eat with meals as well.

Snacking is discouraged, a template meal should keep you full, but I believe it’s protein and fat if you need a snack. It could be anything you would have at a meal, it doesn’t have to be “snacky.”

[ladyshanny]

6 hours ago, Christine H said:

Update: now on day 20; I added starchy vegetables to most meals for two days, and didn't eat nuts and fruit, and especially the starch seemed to help very much, as I felt upbeat and had energy again. But now I'm drained again, although that could be due to my cat waking me up several times last night. However, if I had tiger blood right now, shouldn't I be resistant to that sort of thing?

I am still finding it really hard to know what to eat as a snack (I thought I'd just by meat that is meant to put on bread, but all but one had either cane sugar, honey or rice (?!) in them...), and to add enough fat to my meals. I don't like avocado that much, though I do eat them regularly now. I made mayo, which did make my meals much nicer, but it doesn't go with everything.

You said I'm "starting behind the eight ball" due to having Hashimoto's. Does that mean I can't really expect any good results? Will there be a point to doing the reintroduction? And did I "start behind the eight ball" even if I haven't got that many symptoms from Hashimoto's? Typically it leads to weight gain, hair loss and lack of energy, but it doesn't seem to affect me that way.

"Tiger Blood" doesn't negate every other external factor that would result in you being tired. You're still going to be a human being whose energy levels can fluctuate and should be expected to do so when you have disrupted sleep or during certain times of the month etc. We would not expect you to be "resistant" to lack of sleep.

Regarding the "eight ball" comments. No one said you can't expect any good results, just that you are not starting in the same place that someone with no health issues might be starting in. Think of it like if a person went from being a complete couch-potato to learning to run. We wouldn't say that person could never run a 5k without stopping but that they are starting at a point that is further back than someone who starts off pretty fit and who has been a hobby jogger for a couple of years. They can both get there but it's going to take the first one a little longer and it'll be slower and more work. That's all. You can get there but you don't do yourself any favours by not taking your context into consideration.

[suzannes]

On 4/8/2018 at 6:26 AM, Christine H said:

Hello everyone, I’m on day 16 of my first Whole30 and I’ve been pretty desperate for a few days, because I’m feeling so tired and so much worse than before I started! Also, every day has been different from what I expected (i.e. the timeline).

 

I used to be pretty much carb driven. I did eat a relatively healthy diet, with more veg than average, and less junkfood than average, but I don’t think I ever ate enough protein and fat in my life. I was a vegetarian for seven years from my teens onwards, but I’d just leave out the meat and eat potatoes and vegetables for dinner, for instance.

 

So, the first couple of days of my Whole30, I was fully expecting carb flu and huge cravings (I quit sugar at least once before and the first days were awful craving-wise). But the first days were actually fine! I felt fine, quite happy, and had only few cravings. And so far I haven't really missed any of the things I'm not eating, either.

 

But lately I’ve been getting more tired, I haven’t got the energy to exercise anymore (before Whole30, I sometimes wouldn’t feel like exercising, but I nearly always had enough energy), and I’m hungry all the time. I know what you’re going to say: eat more protein and fat. But I feel like I may be one of those people who do better on several smaller meals a day. My stomach seems to have only two options: stuffed or starving, with little in between. I eat to bursting at most meals because I really don’t want to be hungry for hours, but I just don’t seem able to eat enough in one sitting! So there only seem to be two options now: either I eat to bursting but with slightly too little fat and protein, and then I’m okay for two hours, but starving afterwards. Or I eat to bursting with enough protein and fat, and then I feel tired and unpleasantly stuffed for two hours and am fine after that… I never seem to feel pleasantly satiated for 3-4 hours. (On day 3 I really ate protein, and possibly even fat, by the book, but I felt too full all day, and really like I was overeating. That can’t be the intention, surely?)

 

I hope this story makes sense. Any ideas would be appreciated! It really feels like a weight loss diet now, and I know it isn’t supposed to be! Also, I don’t think I’m losing any weight. I didn’t weigh myself, not even before I started, but visually I haven’t lost any. And I’m still bloated. (And no, I’m not about to have my period!)

 

Holy smokes @ChristineH I feel you there. Similar story and similar struggles in this first half of Whole 30. It's been challenging and eye-opening. All I can say is hang in there -- and listen to all the tips and advice from the moderators and the very experienced Whole 30-ers on this forum. They are very helpful and usually right-on about most everything. Cheers to you for doing this, committing to your good health, and stay going strong. 

[Christine H]

15 hours ago, ladyshanny said:

"Tiger Blood" doesn't negate every other external factor that would result in you being tired. You're still going to be a human being whose energy levels can fluctuate and should be expected to do so when you have disrupted sleep or during certain times of the month etc. We would not expect you to be "resistant" to lack of sleep.

Thanks, ladyshanny. Ok, I guess 'resistant' sounded a bit exaggerated, as if I was expecting to be able to skip a night of sleep and still feel fabulous :P. But I just wondered whether I should be so tired from an hour or so less sleep.

[Christine H]

@sweetcee Thanks for your suggestions! I do like olives, but I couldn't eat the 1 or 2 handfuls suggested in the W30 template, because they're so salty! I am yet to find low sodium olives, but the ones I've got have 0.2 grams of salt per olive! I'm not too worried about eating too much salt (actually I'm wondering whether I've been eating enough salt on this program!) but the taste is just too much for me.

When you drizzle ghee on veg, how do you make sure you actually ingest the ghee? I've drizzled olive oil on veg, but I felt like most of it ended up on my plate.

The grated coconut is a good idea! I like coconut, and I guess in grated form it could be added to most things.

[Christine H]

Thanks @suzannes! I will keep going until day 30...

[suzannes]

6 hours ago, Christine H said:

Thanks @suzannes! I will keep going until day 30...

Definitely hang in there @ChristineH I think it will get better. I was feeling super tired, fatigued, cranky and just desperately wanting a simple junk carb sugar fix to perk me up...for the first 11-12 days. That was a long time to be so tired. But by day 12 I finally did start to feel better, more normal energy, less cranky and less sugar-desperate. Everybody is uniquely wonderful and we all come to this Whole 30 from different places. But luckily for us, this is a very clear and solid healthy eating program *and* we have this great forum for tips, support and encouragement from fellow travelers and from the great moderators (shout out to @ladyshanny & @SugarcubeOD) . I've found this forum to be very helpful to keep me going strong. 

[ladyshanny]

7 hours ago, Christine H said:

Thanks, ladyshanny. Ok, I guess 'resistant' sounded a bit exaggerated, as if I was expecting to be able to skip a night of sleep and still feel fabulous :P. But I just wondered whether I should be so tired from an hour or so less sleep.

Haha, ok, good, glad we're on the same page. You did say that your cat woke you up several times so even if it was 5 times and 10-15 minutes awake each time, that's disrupting your sleep cycle in a pretty major way. You might only be down one hour total but you jacked 5 sleep cycles that night. Ya, you're going to feel crappy. 

[Christine H]

3 hours ago, suzannes said:

But by day 12 I finally did start to feel better, more normal energy, less cranky and less sugar-desperate

Well, the strange thing is that I didn't feel sugar desperate at all! Just really tired :P. I've gone off sugar for a month twice before I think, and those times it was really hard. I don't remember being tired, but I had huge cravings. That wasn't the case this time, I have hardly had any cravings since day 1. But I wasn't feeling great either.