Thinking on doing this diet, but...

[Cristina Rowan]

For 10 years I was a was a vegetarian who ate fish and eggs, and I can tell you that my health deteriorated from eating all the pasta and bread to make up for it.

That compensation with carbs is exactly what has me where I am now !!!!

I might give chicken and turkey a try to start with, very slowly, see if I can deal with the taste, I will only buy if I can get organic from happy animals I must check my local supermarket, but I know for sure not all supermarkets have organic meats

Thanks to all the people who have replied, your comments are very much appreciated.

Im planning on going shopping on Wednesday...so I must make up my mind soon !

[Susan W]

Baby steps Christina. Maybe ask Derval about good chicken sources. I don't mean to put a burr under your saddle but beef and lamb are superior protein choices. Isn't Ireland famous for humanely treated, grass fed animals?

[Guest]

I might give chicken and turkey a try to start with, very slowly, see if I can deal with the taste, I will only buy if I can get organic from happy animals I must check my local supermarket, but I know for sure not all supermarkets have organic meats

Im planning on going shopping on Wednesday...so I must make up my mind soon !

I used the Daily30 e-mails and one of the days gave us tips to sourcing local foods. I have found that the internet has been extremely useful. I now know of tons of great places to get meat and dairy (for the butter) and I can find farmer's markets. I have also found places to order meat. Is it possible that there are similar resources there? I am guessing a local farmer's market could help you find the happy animals you seek.

Also, know that you can shop for Wednesday, even as a vegetarian, but your life does not end there. If you can find good sources of meat and you find that you tolerate it, you can do a Whole30 starting if/when that happens. I have this strong feeling that the full Whole30 is going to help you and become a way of life, so 5 or 10 days as a vegetarian will not be wasted. I am really excited for you!

[Guest]

Baby steps Christina. Maybe ask Derval about good chicken sources. I don't mean to put a burr under your saddle but beef and lamb are superior protein choices. Isn't Ireland famous for humanely treated, grass fed animals?

I mean, what Susan said.

[melbournegirl]

Cristina, only you can figure out what is best for you to try, and there is no punishment if you get it wrong / need to switch what you thought at first if it isnt working for you.

Have a think about what your goals are and what you can sustain.

Firstly I would like to point out that Dallas and Melissa indicate that a vegetarian version of whole30 is inferior and wont deliver the benefits of the standard whole30 but for those that are committed for religious or other regions to remaining strict vegetarian, they have designed an alternative to deliver as much of the benefit as is possible when not eating animal products.

I was a vegetarian for over 16 years. Then I ate meat for a number of years after becoming gluten intolerant. I had my gall bladder out in my early 20's. I have tried veganism for a number of months and felt good initially but my longer term health suffered (iron, vitamin d, b, liver enzymes etc). I improved immediately when I increased meat and good fats on my whole30 then deteriorated for awhile when the amount of fat got out of balance (nuts and coconut cream especially). Now that I have the balance right... meat at virtually all meals but limited nuts and coffee and a reasonable amount of starchy vegies (carrot, pumpkin, sweet potatoes) I finally feel I am eating and functioning normally and effortlessly and have achieved a craving free normal appetite. I hope you can achieve this too!

[Cristina Rowan]

I had a talk with my pillow and my husband...and I will be back to meat. I will be my own experiment. I will use the W30 as a way to see if I feel better eating meat (all I can remember when I used to eat meat, was the post meal sluggish feeling !) It will be a gradual thing...I will eat more fish and eggs at the beggining, and the only meat that I think would appeal to me to start with is pork. I always cooked lean cuts anyway. MY husband is not sure if he wants to go back to meat, and I told him he didnt have to and no big deal if I have to cook different meals. But, if I feel better on meat, I'm sure I will be able to convince him ! hehehe.

I live in a small town and we used to have a Farmers Market, but it dissapear, not enough customers But one of the sellers still sells from her farm, every friday, she has organic produce and every now and then organic meats, so I have to keep an eye on her FB page.

Im less than 100 pages to finish the book...so hopefully I'll finish it today, and tomorrow I will prepare my menu/shopping list..

One question : Coconut milk, does it have to be full fat or lower fat? In the book it says the one from the can, but doesnt say which one is the best. I can get both here.

[Derval]

Cristina, I am happy to hear you are going to give the orginal & best W30 a go M&S does outdoor bred pork which is a good option. Would be great if you could get stuff from your friend though.

Re coconut milk - the thai gold brand (dunnes & SQ) or biona (health food shop) are both great choices. The low fat stuff is just regular stuff watered down so a rip-off and not as nice.

[Cristina Rowan]

Thanks Derval, Im going to M&S on Wednesday and to Dunnes after, so I know now what to look for, great !! MY health shop has the Biona brand, that's the same brand of the coconut oil I buy. I also buy there nice organic selection of herbal teas.

The girl who runs a farm doesnt have organic meat all the time (no meat every week) , but she posts when she is getting some...so will keep an eye on that.

Checked my local Supervalu today and no organic meat, only free range corned fed full chickens. Buy I was already thinking on checking M&S.

I am very focused on starting this asap, I know the first days are gonna be difficult (like going into rehab I suppose) but Im planning on getting very busy to help me take my mind of sugar. I will stop by the forum in case I need help... Everybody is super nice here that I know I will find encouragement if needed

[Derval]

Dunnes stock Herdsman(?) brand of organic beef products. There are also several online butchers if your budget can allow.

Definitely keep in touch here - lots of people start a log, and talk about how they are feeling, what they've eaten etc. I think mine are linked in my sig..it's a good way of getting feedback on how you are doing.

[Kirsteen]

Hi Cristina, I was a vegetarian for quite a while and a vegan for a couple of years but, like a lot of people on here, my health suffered. I really do better with meat in my diet but, like you, I like it to be as ethically and humanely sourced as possible. One thing I would add is that, if you haven't eaten meat for a some time, it can take the stomach a while to get up to speed on producing the enzymes needed to digest it. Most people when switching over find a digestive enzyme taken with their meals a good help. It can prevent that 'heavy undigested ffeeling' after a meal.

My favourite is Viridian Digestive Aid. It's a vegan product and they're against animal testing. I found it really helped. good luck

[MelliebuStacey]

I'm gonna give you my $0.02 here..

1. Would I be able to stick to this diet while not eating meat?? I feel very strongly against still (havent eaten meat in 3 years) Or should I add a bit of meat?

-->Meat is your friend. I've never attempted a vegetarian diet, so I can't give you any perspective from that end, but if you're open to eating meat, then yes, add some! Is your reasoning for not eating meat a moral dilemma? A health one? If you can elaborate, I can too

2. How bad are the carbs cravings? I once tried the south beach diet, but by day 3 I had such a headache and bad humour that I gave in and never ever tried again.

--> We do eat carbs--from starchy vegetables like sweet potatoes, as well as the natural carbohydrates you get from eating vegetables. This is by no means a no-carb way of eating.

3. Because I exercise regularly, would it be ok to eat normal potatoes here and there? or getting carbs from fruit and vegs only?

--> White potatos, no. Yams, yes. I workout hard, and 6x per week, and I've only noticed an increase in my performance.

4. If for example, I decide to have a tuna salad for lunch, can I use a full size tuna can?

--->Yes. However, if you're following the meal-planning template, you may well find that in addition to healthy fats and vegetables, a full can is too much.

5. How about hunger panks in general? will they settle after a while? or could I snack (nuts for example or apple with almond butter? (yummy)

--> If you're getting hunger pangs on a w30, you're not following the meal planning template. Honestly, we consume a lot of food Snacks are discouraged for the simple fact that your meals should be enough to carry you over through to the next meal...that said, while all nuts aren't disallowed, I tend to cut them out of my W30s, as for me they can become SWYPO. It's also always a better choice to eat veg over fruit!

6. I havent seen any mention of drinks at all ! so I suppose only water/tea/coffee are allowed.

--> All the water, black coffee and compliant tea you want! Kombucha is great, too.

7. How not to overeat?....which defeats the purpose of losing weight.

--> If you're eating on plan, it's exceedingly difficult to overeat. Following the meal planning template pretty much ensures that. Also, it's almost impossible to consume more than the recommended daily caloric intake when you rely heavily on vegetables as your basis. Have you ever tried to eat 1500 calories of spinach in a day? This isn't a diet, and it isn't about losing weight. It's a nice side-effect of eating real food for sure, but the ultimate goal is to gain the healthiest possible you.

8. Is it ok to have for breakfast something like: egg omelette and a "cereal" made of chopped apple, banana and some nuts and raisins, a yogurt and tea? (I normally have 2 toast, tea, 1 banana and 1 low fat yogurt and I last till lunch).

--> Eggs are your new BFF. Seriously. I have like 4-5 a day. Cereal--no. That's definite SWYPO. Yogurt isn't allowed (dairy).

And my personal notes for you are as follows:

1. read. The website as well as this forum are plenty to get you started. A lot of what you asked above is easily answered by simply reading. Devote a week or two to reading everything you can get your hands on (a copy of ISWF would do you great, too), making notes, and asking questions. It's pretty straight-forward when you get into it, but definitely overwhelming until you devote some time into getting acquainted with this.

2. You're not going to get anywhere with this if you only devote yourself 50%. It is hard, definitely, but it's worth it. This is not a diet, it's a complete and utter lifestyle overhaul. Honestly, if you don't think you can devote yourself to the program and the magic that come with following the program, then no, a W30 is not for you. However, if you are truly, deeply willing to follow the meal planning template, to not give in on the hard days, and to feel better than you have ever before, dive in There is so much to gain by losing a few dietary non-essentials, and if you have some weight to lose, you'll be amazed at how much of a difference Whole9 principles can make, both in losing inches and in elevating your energy levels (and ultimately, your performance at the gym!)

3. Ditto to everyone on the combination of the vegetarian and non-vegetarian protocols--I'd go non-veg from what you've described.

Let us know where you end up

We'll be more than happy to help walk you through.

[ABW]

As far as the animal welfare argument, I like to think of my increased meat consumption as an opportunity to vote with my wallet. Buying local/grassfed/certified humane/organic etc costs a little more, is sometimes hard to find etc but it shows support for that portion of the industry.

[MelliebuStacey]

As far as the animal welfare argument, I like to think of my increased meat consumption as an opportunity to vote with my wallet. Buying local/grassfed/certified humane/organic etc costs a little more, is sometimes hard to find etc but it shows support for that portion of the industry.

ABW, you hit the proverbial nail on the head here. Happy cows=happy steak. Happy chickens=happy eggs. Et cetera. And happily sourced food=happy omnomnomivores

[MelliebuStacey]

As far as the animal welfare argument, I like to think of my increased meat consumption as an opportunity to vote with my wallet. Buying local/grassfed/certified humane/organic etc costs a little more, is sometimes hard to find etc but it shows support for that portion of the industry.

ABW, you hit the proverbial nail on the head here. Happy cows=happy steak. Happy chickens=happy eggs. Et cetera. And happily sourced food=happy omnomnomivores

[Cristina Rowan]

Thanks people for all your contributions to this thread....

The good news is that I am on day 8 today !!! and yes, I have been eating meat, not very easy to get from "happy animals" but I get what I can.

No hunger pangs at all !! feeling full most of the time !!

And I am delighted I didnt suffer any carb flu/fatigue, etc !! I havent find this new diet lifestyle difficult at all ! what motivates me the most is the fact I dont feel hungry after a meal.

I have been having salads for lunch most of the time, with tuna or chicken, and I havent used the whole can of tuna, it's too much !! I have been eating avocados too, which I have always loved !!

The only thing I havent been able to change yet is to see breakfast as meal 1, I have been having eggs every morning, but I like them anyway.

I have answered my own questions, with the help of the book and your thoughts.

Am I in a happy place right now? YES

[MelliebuStacey]

Thanks people for all your contributions to this thread....

The good news is that I am on day 8 today !!! and yes, I have been eating meat, not very easy to get from "happy animals" but I get what I can.

No hunger pangs at all !! feeling full most of the time !!

And I am delighted I didnt suffer any carb flu/fatigue, etc !! I havent find this new diet lifestyle difficult at all ! what motivates me the most is the fact I dont feel hungry after a meal.

I have been having salads for lunch most of the time, with tuna or chicken, and I havent used the whole can of tuna, it's too much !! I have been eating avocados too, which I have always loved !!

The only thing I havent been able to change yet is to see breakfast as meal 1, I have been having eggs every morning, but I like them anyway.

I have answered my own questions, with the help of the book and your thoughts.

Am I in a happy place right now? YES

YAY! So happy to hear that you're having a good time on your W30 so far ! As far as happy animals go, do your best! It isn't always easy to source "perfect" so work the plan with the best quality meats and produce that you can find and sustainably afford. Wonderful news that you haven't suffered from hunger pangs (in fact, it would be a point of contention and a place for us to step in and try to help if you were!!! No hungry omnomnomivores here ) or carb flu--sounds like you're doing a good job following the meal planning template and listening to your body's needs. There may be "kill all the things" days later in your W30, or cravings, or having to tweak things; and if that happens, it's okay! Don't forget that, and don't forget that we're here. On the flip side, you might cruise through this with nothing but good vibes and you may never hit the "kill all the things/give me cookies or give me death!" days--and you know what? That's okay too --and we're still here for ya if that happens to be the case. Oh--and don't bat an eyelash at the eggs as meal 1 thing. I have eggs every. single. morning. I love them, and they're a fantastic, on-plan, and easy to adapt protein source--just make sure you're eating them yolks, too--we don't do egg whites here (in fact, I eat eggs as much as I can...may or may not have had eggs for brekky, lunch, and dinner a few days ago (in addition to my fats and veg, natch). Best of luck moving forward, looking forward to hearing more about your journey!

[NMG]

Excellent news, glad it's going so well

[Adagio]

If you choose to eat meat/poultry, look for sources of humanely raised, grass-fed, and pastured animals. I am an animal lover, and most of our proteins come from a local farm. We know the owner and know his ethics.

Among other diets, I did macrobiotic, food for life, and then went vegan, after that, vegetarian, for many years. And I got very sick and obese.

Nothing against those diet choice, everyone is an individual and free to do what they like, but I personally recommend that folks eat animal protein if they want to do a Whole30 for weight loss.

There are many factors that go into why people are overweight. IMO, it's too much of a burden to find a proper amount of non-animal protein while doing a Paleo-style diet like Whole30. And I believe that if you follow the plan 100% (eat animal protein) you will FEEL much better- which goes a LONG way toward sticking with any plan.

I was pre-diabetic and suffered terrible acid reflux a few years ago. Since going on a mostly Paleo-style diet, most of my chronic health complaints have disappeared. I am still fighting the obesity monster, and that's not the diet's fault. I tend to derail myself at times.

Regarding sugar cravings, the best way to beat that demon is to forget calorie counting. Instead, do a strict Whole30, according to the book - and go easy on the fruit and nuts.

I find now that if I now crave something "off plan," it's not sugary sweet stuff. In fact, very sweet foods make me feel nauseous, so I avoid them.

I've read lots of testimonials of pre-diabetic folks who have eliminated that problem by going on a Paleo diet.

I highly recommend you stick to Whole30 for a couple of months, then transition to a strict Paleo diet. I believe you may see a lot of positive changes.

[EmilyB456]

Cristina--YAY! I am so, so happy for you, and imagine things will only get better for you from here on out.

The next thing to worry about is, are you sure your veggies are being grown by happy, wild-caught farmers?

[Derval]

Cristina--YAY! I am so, so happy for you, and imagine things will only get better for you from here on out.

The next thing to worry about is, are you sure your veggies are being grown by happy, wild-caught farmers?

She has a shed full of them (wild-caught farmers)

[MelliebuStacey]

She has a shed full of them (wild-caught farmers)

I like this idea...

[1Maryann]

Hooray, Christina! Love to hear you're doing well on the plan. And that lack of hunger? I'm guessing you've become fat-adapted, so when your body runs out of whatever you had for your last meal, it switches over to burning fat for fuel, instead of prompting you to eat something else.

[Cristina Rowan]

Day 9 and all good !!! I even went to gym today to do my cardio and not a bother !

BUT, even though I am not madly having any cravings...I do miss chocolate and a little tiny square of very dark chocolate should be allowed...specially for PMS women ...so in the meantime I will be doing that chocolate chilli recipe from Well Fed, and maybe that steak rub fom the ISWF book.

[AmyS]

More carbs for PMS - sweet potatoes, squash, pumpkin, etc. And more fat. Avocados, baby!!

[Cristina Rowan]

Hello.....day 11 nearly over...Im really getting the hang of this, Im also preparing in advance (that's the key) so is not really more work...I like cooking, so the prep work doesnt bother or stresses me.

The only thing Im a bit not happy about is that if I have lost some weight, I dont feel any changes...somebody asked me today if I had put on weight ! just imagine how I felt ! I took for granted that if my downfall on dieting is carbs, that a carbs free diet (and the other things) would mean inmediate weigh loss. I have been careful not too add more fat than reccomended to my meals, and foodwise Im doing everything by the book. I have exercised this week more than the previous week...and still

No matter what I will reach day 30,and depending on results, I will decide what to do then.

As I said in the beggining, I need to loose weight and my problem is carbs, and this new eating habits is helping me with that, ...." and as a result of your clean diet, you'll lose weight", the book says.

I havent weight myself (cos I know that would drive me insane, as it has in the past) so decided to weight only on day 0 and day 31.

Is it early days to feel any weight changes?