Brewer5: Keto Whole 30

[MeadowLily]

[Brewer5]

To be clear:  I am going to stick with my keto Whole 30.  And I am not going to go on a crazy binge on Day 31.  I promise.    (Maybe Day 32........  kidding.)

 

If I were in the woods in the winter with no storage of starchy veggies, I would continue to eat... animals.  And I may be sad when that time of the month comes around.  And I would get over it.  

 

If I DID have a storage of veggies, I would guess that around that time of the month would be when my body would give me a great desire to eat them.

 

So.  Just putting out my observations here.

 

I do have more stress as a factor right now, and I recognize that.  I am sick of painting and my husband hasn't been home to help much and... when he is home, he is no help with painting.  Lots of other things here -- yes -- when he's here -- but painting... umm, no.

[MeadowLily]

[kirkor]

You don't see a whole lot of keto women.

There seem to be a lot of women on this forum: http://forum.lowcarber.org/

[MeadowLily]

[Brewer5]

There seem to be a lot of women on this forum: http://forum.lowcarber.org/

 

But is there specifically a keto group?  Just browsing all of the titles, I'm not seeing it.

 

There were plenty of low-carb women on Jimmy's forums... but only 2 I can think of who were measuring for ketosis.

[Brewer5]

Kirkor,  glad you're there.

 

At what point do the diminishing returns of keto outweigh the benefits(no longer able to maintain lean muscle mass)  but start going out the other direction?

 

When there's not enough protein (eating more fats than protein) - how do you maintain stamina, endurance and muscle mass?

 

I am currently reading The Art and Science of Low Carbohydrate Performance by Phinney & Volek (the experts).

 

If the diet is well-formulated (65-80% fat), there seem to be no downsides.  Not supposed to be loss of muscle.  It's a very technical book and it is taking me awhile to get through both of their books -- but that's the gist of it.

[Brewer5]

I've read that most healthy folks use if for about 4 weeks and then take a break.   What do you think about that?   

 

I'm not sure what I think about that, because I haven't heard that before.  

 

John Kiefer (of Carb Nite and Carb Backloading) says we need to have a weekly carb-up.  Maybe less often (every 10-14 days), if we have more fat to lose (I don't.)  In that world, I could probably be having a CN about every 5 days and getting "the best of both worlds", in a way.

 

Jimmy Moore and Phinney & Volek, as well as Dr. Perlmutter of Grain Brain, and from what I have heard on podcasts, Dr. Terry Wahls...  All are in favor of a ketogenic diet.  Period.

[kirkor]

When there's not enough protein (eating more fats than protein) - how do you maintain stamina, endurance and muscle mass?

I like the current approach (current, in that it's what I see bandied about more so than the "old" (relative) method of looking at macro ratios (5% carb, 75% fat, etc.) )to achieving nutritional ketosis:

- carbs are a limit

- protein is a goal

- fat is to satiety

So, WRT your question, with a protein target of .6-1.2g/lb LBM, you've got enough protein on board for muscle building needs, and if one is keto-adapted then stamina and endurance are well taken care via ketone production by the liver as opposed to relying on stored glycogen.

[kirkor]

But is there specifically a keto group?  Just browsing all of the titles, I'm not seeing it.

 

There were plenty of low-carb women on Jimmy's forums... but only 2 I can think of who were measuring for ketosis.

I dunno, just pointing you in the right direction

Look here too: http://www.reddit.com/r/xxketo

[Brewer5]

Thanks, kirkor, but I really don't want to go through those forums looking for a woman who has maintained nutritional ketosis for an extended period of time. My point was that there really isn't a wealth of information out there about the hormonal effects that women may experience. It's not in my books... It is something I will have to see for myself, I guess, because that's all that really matters anyway -- how I am feeling and how my body is reacting.

[Brewer5]

But something like this is exactly what my instincts were telling me. Thanks, instincts.

http://abcnews.go.com/Health/DiabetesLivingWith/story?id=3807364

[kirkor]

But something like this is exactly what my instincts were telling me. Thanks, instincts.

http://abcnews.go.com/Health/DiabetesLivingWith/story?id=3807364

Thanks, confirmation bias.

[Brewer5]

You can see my food.  Do you see another explanation for why my FBG is up 10 points from 2 days ago...... when I was eating nuts and seeds?

[Kmlynne]

You can see my food.  Do you see another explanation for why my FBG is up 10 points from 2 days ago...... when I was eating nuts and seeds?

I didn't see anything different from the days you were reaching yellow and red.....  stay the course, and your numbers should return to those levels soon.  

[Brewer5]

Thank you, Karen.  I haven't seen any red yet....  not sure if I ever will.  But, I am feeling very "oh well" about that, at this point.

 

Today I decided to just eat. more. food.  I see that recommendation here all the time... along with more starchy veggies for that time of the month.  Well, the more food part I can get on board with.  No problem.  And I DID feel better as the day went on.

 

I tried on a couple pairs of jeans today that I haven't been able to wear for a little while.  I can tell from that measurement that I have lost some weight.  Although that wasn't the goal, I think I will take it.  I like those jeans.  

 

Today, I painted, painted, and painted some more.  Have I mentioned I am sick of painting?  I have decided to give myself at least a couple days' break from painting now.  I need it.  There are other things to be done.  Like relaxing a little.

 

But man...  11 years in this house, raising 3 boys, has taken its toll on these poor walls.  They look SO much better when I am done.

 

Day 26

 

FBG:  96

 

AM Ketones:  9 green

 

M1:  eggs (4), kale, coconut oil/bacon grease, 1/2 T MCT + 1/2 T ghee in my coffee

M2:  ground beef, broccoli, orange bell pepper, coconut aminos, coconut manna

M3:  Costco pulled pork (no sauce), green beans, coconut manna

[kirkor]

I also have no idea how folks get fasting blood sugar in the 50-60 range (!) and I am unsure whether I will ever be willing to do what is required to get there, either.

This is from McDonald's KD book:

Although some mention is made in the discussions below of the adaptations seen during

this time period, most of the major adaptations to ketosis start to occur by the third day,

continuing for at least 3 weeks (4-6). During the first 3 days of fasting, blood glucose drops from

normal levels of 80-120 mg/dl to roughly 65-75 mg/dl. Insulin drops from 40-50 μU/ml to 7-10

μU/ml (5,7,8). Both remain constant for the duration of the fast. One thing to note is that the

body strives to maintain near-normal blood glucose levels even under conditions of total fasting

(5). The popularly held belief that ketosis will not occur until blood glucose falls to 50 mg/dl is

incorrect. Additionally, the popular belief that there is no insulin present on a ketogenic diet is

incorrect (7).

One difference between fasting and a ketogenic diet is that the slight insulin response to

dietary protein will cause blood glucose to be maintained at a slightly higher level, approximately

80-85 mg/dl (1). This most likely occurs due to the conversion of dietary protein to glucose in the

liver.

Is that germane to your FBG concerns?

[Brewer5]

Thanks, kirkor...  I have never heard of the "goal" of 50-60 until doctoremily posted about it on your thread.  I asked her how exactly this was supposed to happen, and she said she thought after eating this way long enough, it would happen.  ...I don't think so, based on what I have seen with my own body anyway.  So -- what you've posted makes it sound like those levels are achieved through fasting.

 

Well, I obviously have not been fasting, doing a Whole 30.  I have stuck to the guidelines and had at least 3 meals per day.

 

I also don't know that I am interested in fasting.  {shrug}  I feel pretty good eating this way.

 

One thing I have thought about:  I know eggs cause more of an insulin response due to the leucine content.  I have had eggs every single day for breakfast.  I'd like to experiment with other things for breakfast -- I just haven't made myself do it yet.

[MeadowLily]

[Brewer5]

Day 27

 

FBG:  97

 

AM Ketones:  5 green

 

(I'm okay with these numbers now that I know what is going on.)     Still loving the science experiment.

 

M1:  eggs (2), yolk (1), spinach, coconut oil/bacon grease, coconut milk & MCT in coffee

M2:  salmon cakes, spinach, homemade mayo, asparagus, ghee

M3:  chicken thighs, broth, cooked carrots & onion (small amount -- NOT cups' worth), coconut manna

 

I feel MUCH better today...  Not feeling like PMS at all, actually.  Maybe my body changed its mind.  

 

So happy with myself that I actually thought ahead and threw some stuff in the crock pot, so dinner was ready when we walked in the door from gymnastics tonight.  It was just a big pack of boneless, skinless chicken thighs, one onion, some baby carrots, salt, pepper, in compliant chicken stock.  My kids went on and on about it!  "Can we have this more often?"  Ummm, SURE!  It was crazy easy... just required a little thinking ahead, which I apparently have not been very good at until today.  We have gymnastics every. single. Monday. night.  Why is this the first time I've made use of my crock pot?

[MeadowLily]

Do you know what the Coconut Butter is that everyone raves about and some eat entire jars in one setting?   I don't know what they're referring to.  You think this is it?

 

Enjoy Dastony Coconut Butter:

• With a spoon, right out of the jar.

 

  

 

Coconut Manna Organic Superfood Pureed Coconut from Nutiva is perfect to use in smoothies, sauces and spreads. Made of pure, dried coconut flesh, coconut manna is a creamy whole coconut food that will melt in your mouth. Similar in consistency to coconut butter or coconut cream, Nutiva Coconut Manna delivers fiber, protein and nourishing fats. It spreads easily at temperatures above 73 degrees. Non-GMO Project Verified, kosher and USDA certified organic. Zero cholesterol and zero trans fat. Vegan.

[Brewer5]

^ MeadowLily, yes, that is exactly what can be food-without-brakes for some people.  If you were in just the wrong state of mind, if you had waited too long to eat, if you were starved for fat to begin with -- and if you let yourself sit down with a jar of it -- I guess I could see how this could happen.  (Although, an entire jar.... man, that is a FEAT.)  When it is above 73 degrees and in its "creamy" state, it is sort of like a pudding or ice cream consistency, I guess.

 

I make my own in the food processor, and it does not get so creamy.  There's still a bit of thickness to it, so that it almost will get stuck in my throat and cause choking if I don't have water nearby.  lol  

 

I have found it to be a perfect FAT ending to my meal.  Sometimes just a spoonful while standing in the kitchen.  Sometimes I will measure out two tablespoons in a bowl and sit down and savor it.

 

Another great use has been to take it with me in the car (I have only done this a couple of times, but it is something I will continue to do) -- if I know I am going to be getting a black coffee or drinking green tea while we are out (caffeine), it REALLY helps me out to have just a spoonful of that before I have my drink.  I am pretty sensitive to caffeine, but having that fat with it helps keep me smooth and steady -- for hours, if needed.  I think I can safely say that I will never battle the heavy cream dragon again, as long as I have this alternative.

 

Edit:  To be clear:  I do not put this IN my drink.  That would just be gross.  

[Kmlynne]

ohhhh  - I love coconut manna!!!!!  I am also an "eat it by the spoonful" kind of girl!         

This just reminded me to dig mine out of the pantry

[Brewer5]

Karen, did you decide that it wasn't actually coconut that was causing you tummy problems?  It was the kidney stones or something else?

[Kmlynne]

To be honest, I haven't tried the coconut in large amounts yet...... My heart wants it to be the kidney stones, uterus, etc - then I can eat it any time I want! Will have to try!