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dfox

Half Marathon Soon, Low Energy

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I swell up too if I carb load! I feel so heavy and sluggish, people said "oh that's normal your body is holding water along with the carbs". Sure it might be physiologically normal, but that doesn't mean it's the right thing to do to yourself. But it didn't happen for me overnight. Took time and patience and experimenting. 

 

dfox Congrats on the BQ, and best of luck! Hopefully eating clean in the time between now and then primes you for the best race!

 

lucie

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If you go to my blog (link below) you can find a link to all of iseetrails whole30 posts. She went from a back of the packer to one of only 5 women and 12 men to do a mountain 100 miler with 32,000 feet of elevation.

I would say she improved quite a lot!

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My pace also improved drastically with the change to paleo. I'm not running right now but I teach group fitness classes and have to be at the top of my game to push my participants. I do need lots of carbs and sometimes I get them from non-gluten grains, but mostly I get them from starchy vegetables and I'm doing just fine. Everyone is different but don't count it out before you have even given it a full 30 days. 

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dfox you're totally right on the 'pace makes a difference' line of thought. I'm a cyclist, not a runner, but I can ride for a very long time on water if I'm riding with someone who's slower than me. As soon as I'm pushing it to keep pace with someone who's faster, I can do an hour tops-then I NEED carbs.

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I have found that eating this way has made me faster.... I am a typically mid to back of the packer who runs all sorts of distances 5k- ultras... and I shaved off 40 seconds off of my faster mile times... and I am able to run about 30 seconds per mile faster during my longer runs... which is HUGE for me... since you could set a watch by my mile times during an ultra... I am that predictable... one of my running buddies is always needing me to slow up now...  :P

 

And I have had HUGE improvements in the gym with lifting, after MONTHS of being stuck at same bench weight, went up 15 pounds and my old "Max" is my new "working" weight. Went up 40 pounds on my deadlifts as well....Even my trainer remarked on my progress since Nov, when I did my first whole 30, now on my second. 

 

I also run stairs as cross-training and have gotten faster each week with those as well.... 

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I have found that eating this way has made me faster.... I am a typically mid to back of the packer who runs all sorts of distances 5k- ultras... and I shaved off 40 seconds off of my faster mile times... and I am able to run about 30 seconds per mile faster during my longer runs... which is HUGE for me... since you could set a watch by my mile times during an ultra... I am that predictable... one of my running buddies is always needing me to slow up now...  :P

 

And I have had HUGE improvements in the gym with lifting, after MONTHS of being stuck at same bench weight, went up 15 pounds and my old "Max" is my new "working" weight. Went up 40 pounds on my deadlifts as well....Even my trainer remarked on my progress since Nov, when I did my first whole 30, now on my second. 

 

I also run stairs as cross-training and have gotten faster each week with those as well.... 

MadScience, did you see improvements during Whole30, or after? I'm at day 20. I run nearly every morning, followed by situps and pushups and some kettlebell. My run today was slow, as usual during the whole 30 (and yes I am eating a ton, as well as pre-post as prescribed). My situps and pushups are still at the same number they were before. I can't do more, but on a good note, I'm not doing fewer either. I'm no stronger from what I can tell. I would be curious to know if there is any likelyhood of improvement by maintaining a near Whole30 when done. I intend to continue without gluten, sugar, and dairy.

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dfox, for some reason, I think about Al Pacino when I read your training protocol.    Intense and darned successful.  I believe there's the likelihood of improvement if you continue on without gluten, sugar and dairy.   What do they bring to the table that you're really missing?

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Wow, what a super hopeful helpful thread. I am a mid packer, usually in the top 33% percentile of my races except my first 50k ultra in Oct I just made cutoff.

 

What I was going to post before I saw there was a page two to this thread:

"I know juice is not generally compliant I would be tempted to take in 4-6 oz of beet juice 10 minutes before the start. It's supposed to have cardio-capacity enhancing qualities plus of course carbs. Your glycogen stores will be topped up if you've been eating starchy veg in the 2 days before, so the beet juice would just be some high octane lighter fluid. If you take it just before commencing the race there shouldn't be an insulin spike. But I get my info from half-listening to podcasts so..."

 

I am not running with my pals right now (day 19) because I am too slow. I was a carb pig though so hopefully I need to just keep with it. Thanks everyone for giving me hope I might just get faster!

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@dfox I started to see improvement around day 17-20 in november... and I have kept up with a Whole 9 type lifestyle during December and am on Whole 30 # 2 right now and I am still going strong.  

 

I continue having the improvements every week in the gym when I lift... and I was stuck before the whole 30 with my bench and my deadlift... Even my trainer noted how much stronger I Have gotten over the past 10 weeks. I continue to post good run times (for me) and I keep myself active. Maybe your magic is just a little late to the party? I think this may be one of those "everyone is different" moments... Which sucks, because I know you want that *pop* of tiger blood....

 

@ Sharfish- keep with it and hopefully you will start to see some improvements soon!!! 

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Guys, reading this has been a HUGE help! I'm only on day 6 and had my first dead leg run Tuesday. It's my base training time so I can push through this. There's a squeeze pouch, MammaChia, that comes in a variety of flavors and is technically compliant but it has so much fruit juice concentrate that it could double for a gel. 10g for 70 cal. I was using it for races before Whole30 and, except for the added bulk of carrying a pouch over a gel and the lack of caffeine, it worked really well for me. A friend who does Tri's introduced me to it.

 

Lucie, it looks like I started Whole30 for the same reason you did. The stress from longer distances is literally making me ill so I will probably have to stay Whole30 compliant but I'd prefer to run long rather than fast so reading your post was a perfect help!! Thank you!

 

dfox - Sorry your race results were so disappointing and I'm there with you on the deadleg syndrome. It is sooo frustrating to feel like you're making an extreme effort and see no results! You said, "I was planning to use it as an indicator to my progress in training." Perhaps it was just not the indicator you wanted but will end up giving you valuable tools for future training? I hope!

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Thank you - you all have been very helpful. I'm still slow, but I'm also still running every day and hope to see improvement. At the end of the W30 (in 10 days) I will continue for an additional 15 days to give my body a chance to properly fat adapt. By then I should know if it just isn't going to work for speed. Also, my wife started 9 days after me so I want to remain compliant throughout her W30 to encourage her success. After that popcorn with nutritional yeast is back, and maybe a little rice, but that's it. No more sugar, no more wheat, maybe plain yogurt on occasion. I already abstain from booze.

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I did a Whole 30 in November and was training for a race that fell a few days after my Whole 30 ended. The last few long runs of training cycle for the half was dreadful. I picked up some baby food packs (I think it had a rabbit on the cover). I would eat those about every hour or so. Pre long run I would have a Lara bar.  For eating Whole 30 at the time it was not bad tasting and gave me a bit of a boost. Fast forward to the race, Whole 30 allowed me to drop about 15 pounds so I was confident that I might run a bit faster. I added my gu back (Peanut butter and chocolate gu before and every hour during) along with salt tabs (I'm in south Texas) and was able to drop my time from 2:38 to 2:32. I just completed a race this weekend and have maintained a pretty consistent Paleo diet and dropped to 2:25. 

 

Good luck!

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Okay, today I did a 9 mile run that included 6 miles track work. I absolutely kicked butt. My pace was very strong (the best it's been all month) and I felt great. I did cheat a little bit by having a couple of dates with coconut pre-workout, as I believe with high intensity endurance activity it is important to have some quick carbs. That said, pre-workout dates did not work for prior workouts and my half marathon last weekend. So I think I've reached at least some level of fat adaptation. Tomorrow I run another 9 miles, so we'll see how that goes.

 

My post workout pushups and situps were also stronger than normal. I hope this is a trend.

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I just finished my 9 mile run. No pre-workout dates; protein only. Again, my pace was better than it's been in over a month by about 1 min/mile. I think I've got my mojo back. Part of my struggle may have been W30 related, and part may be that I got over a bad flu four days before starting, so while I didn't feel sick anymore, my body may have taken a few weeks to fully recover.

 

Thanks to everyone for the words of support and encouragement. Kirkor, thanks for the fitting article.

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@JeffJ

 

I am also an avid runner and have been reading this thread with great interest.  Now in the final days of my Whole30 and did two challenging 10K trail races - one very early in week one and the second  a couple of days ago.  My performance was mediocre in the first one and inexplicably slow in the second.  I think I understand now why..   In the first week of the program I was still eating a decent amount of carbs - dried fruits, potatoes, lots of nuts - which supported the challenging but still relatively normal pace.  Since then, my carb consumption has declined as I feel much more at ease on a low carb diet.  While I don't seem to need a lot of carbs to support easy running and swimming efforts, an intense run is probably a different matter entirely.  In the second race, I felt like I was pushing but was actually going around 1 min per mile slower than I normally would in such a race.  Oddly, while I thought I pushed, I had no residual soreness and was able to run comfortably for 2 hours the days after the race.  I suspect that I simply did not have the glycogen stores to support a hard effort in the second race.    Whole30 has really been a piece of cake for me in terms of regular life, but it's made intense workouts nearly impossible so far.   Interested in how long others have needed to adapt to more intense efforts on a Whole 30 low-carb regimen. 60 days?  90?  thanks

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Whole30 has really been a piece of cake for me in terms of regular life, but it's made intense workouts nearly impossible so far.

 

JeffJ, My plan is to give it at least an extra 15 days and see if my body is truly fat adapting because I would prefer to live a sugar free life. I had one person message me saying she just couldn't adjust, but follows W30 closely except at race and speed-work time when she'll use gels for that rocket fuel experience. Normally I would only use gels to race, not for workout runs. I do plan, after about 45 days total, to reintroduce rice and popcorn. I want to stay off of sugar and wheat. My best marathons have been during gluten free times in my life, so I know I don't need wheat. However a nice fat GF Pancake is sure nice before an 18 mile run.

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Sounds like a plan dfox.  My focus these days is ultras (e.g. 50K), so I'm willing to give it another month or two to see how far the fat adaptations can take me.  Regarding grains, I have no history of gluten issues and miss grains a lot less than I thought I would.  Replacing my frequent popcorn snacks with nuts or seeds has really evened out my energy levels.  I can't wait for that first bite of cheese on Thursday and a good beer this weekend, but the sugar / honey / stevia, grains and legumes are likely gone for good..

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dfox, it's awesome to read your progression. 

And LucieB I think you really nailed it!

 

For future reference regarding heavy legs you could try the Lydiard way.

I don't mean to simplify the issue. No doubt there was a lot going on in your body in January that led to decreased performance. It sounds like you have an increased awareness of your body and what it needs. :) 

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I'm a triathlete who has never liked the taste of Gatorade and coconut water.  I make a drink for my runs and rides containing half juice (like OJ or apple juice) and half water with salt added.  It sounds weird but tastes good AND you need that sugar during runs especially if you can't eat anything (like myself).  I can eat all I want on the bike but can't on the run.  This may or may not be "whole30" approved because of all the fruit but it's loads better than other options.  Thoughts?

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