littlebluehouse Posted November 30, 2015 Share Posted November 30, 2015 I'm on day 27 and I continue to experience some frustrations. I was having trouble with snacking between meals and it was recommended to me that I increase my meal size portions so that I'm not hungry for 4-5 hours. But then I end up stuffing myself past when I'm full at each meal. I feel gross and bloated and like I've eaten too much. I also feel like I'm not leaner at all, and I feel like I'm eating too much. Also by day 27 I was hoping I'd wake up ready to start each day (all I want to do is stay in bed, as usual) and I am often craving both salty and sweet snacks (I try to put it off or I have a mini meal) even when I am eating huge regular meals. I just feel disappointed. And it feels like I'm teaching my brain to stuff food into my face even when I'm not hungry, and this can't be healthy! Help! I know the moderator will ask for what I've been eating so here is an example of two different days. I probably snack more than this, I am so hungry before the 4-5 hours is up! Even on day 27!! M1 - 4 eggs with two cups tomato salsa and spinach and half an avocado. Coffee with coconut milk. Post workout - two egg whites and half a sweet potato. M2 - huge bowl (3 cups) of turkey veggie chili (with sweet potato chunks) and a small bowl (1/2 cup?) of macadamia nuts M3 - perfect seared chicken breast and three cups broccoli slathered with ghee. M1 - two chicken Apple sausages and 1-2 cups cauliflower mash Post workout - turkey bits and sweet potato bits from the chili, about 1/2 to 1 cup total M2 - two no fuss salmon cakes with half an avocado and a cup of baby carrots Snack - banana, almond butter, turkey deli meat and guacamole, green pepper strips M3 - 1-2 cups roasted butternut squash, huge cut of grilled salmon, half a can of black olives, a cup of sautéed kale I'm usually hungry after dinner before bed. Sometimes I force myself to go to bed without eating but sometimes I eat a mini meal (a couple scrambled eggs with some carrots or peppers on the side, maybe an apple, and some macadamia nuts). Thanks in advance! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brewer5 Posted November 30, 2015 Share Posted November 30, 2015 When I see people eating to the point of feeling gross and bloated -- yet also feeling hungry often -- this tells me that you would do better with your meals formulated differently. To be precise, I think it would serve you well to have more FAT and less carbs. Your sluggish feeling and your persistent cravings also support this idea. 2 cups of salsa for breakfast would make me need a nap. It would also make me hungry just a little bit later. This is due to blood sugar spikes and crashes. I suspect that chicken apple sausages and cauliflower mash would do the same. I am not criticizing your meals -- at all -- I am saying that some of us are more sensitive to the effects of carbohydrates, and you may be one of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Tom Denham Posted November 30, 2015 Moderators Share Posted November 30, 2015 The size of your meals is good. They are not too large and you are not stuffing yourself. You may feel like you are stuffing yourself, but the reason we offer the meal planning template is because you cannot trust your culturally shaped feelings to tell you the truth for a while. I think Brewer5 is right. I think you need more fat because turkey and chicken apple sausages are low fat. You are adding fat with avocado, olives, and nuts, but I think you need more. I never recommend more nuts, but I do recommend fattier cuts of meat like chuck roast or lamb, mayonnaise, and coconut milk. Cutting high natural sugar tomato salsa and replacing it with more fat would be a good trade. I never encourage going low carb, but if you need to cut somewhere, cut starchy veggies, not protein or fat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
littlebluehouse Posted November 30, 2015 Author Share Posted November 30, 2015 Thanks Brewer5 and Tom! I can't believe I need more fat, but I will try. When I have a huge hearty salad (topped with hardboiled eggs or salmon cakes) I smother it with homemade ranch dressing, I'm constantly eating the "wholey guacamole" packs from costco, I am eating olives and macadamia nuts by the truckload, drowning any cooked veggies on my plate with ghee, and putting full-fat coconut milk in everything from cauliflower mash to coffee to butternut squash soup. But I will try to add more. For the record, my egg scramble doesn't have two cups of salsa, I think I worded it funny in my post, but I wrote spinach too. Probably about a cup of salsa and a cup of spinach. I didn't realize tomatoes would spike my blood sugar. When you both say to increase the fat and cut back on carbs, do you mean to cut back on starchy veggies like butternut squash, sweet potato, beets, etc? Or should I cut back on ALL veggies? I'm so confused because I was advised earlier to increase my vegetable consumption. I think I'm going to do an extra week of whole30 before I start my reintroduction to see if I can figure this out. But so often all I want is a banana or apple dipped in almond butter, or an entire package of compliant turkey deli meat dipped in guacamole, or an entire can of olives. I was already at a healthy body weight before I started the program, so I didn't expect significant weight loss. But I often have a protruding belly after meals and I thought that would be reduced, but it hasn't. It's a bummer. (I am more confident in the kitchen, so that's a good non-scale victory). Thanks again in advance for answering my question about carbs/vegetables. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
littlebluehouse Posted November 30, 2015 Author Share Posted November 30, 2015 ps for whatever it's worth I usually am mostly vegetarian with a little poultry thrown in, so this has been a VERY meat-heavy diet for me. I've introduced some fish (which I never used to eat) but am still avoiding red meats (which maybe tend to be fattier?). I wasn't sure if maybe my body isn't used to so much meat, and that's why I'm not seeing the awesome results that most people see with Whole30... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brewer5 Posted November 30, 2015 Share Posted November 30, 2015 I don't want to step on anyone's vegetarian toes, nor do I want to get into any type of debate -- but I will tell you that your body should be thriving with the extra protein added in. I can't see that being the problem at all. But then, I have absolutely zero vegetarian leanings. Re: reducing carbs. I would ask -- how long have you been living a vegetarian lifestyle? If you have had a carb-heavy diet for awhile, you could have some underlying insulin resistance going on that you are not even aware of. My recommendation would be to start by keeping breakfast very low carb, for sure -- and see how you feel for the hours after that. For breakfast #1 -- I would ditch the salsa, stick with LOTS of spinach, and if there is a lot of coconut milk in your coffee, I would even ditch the avocado. It may seem counterintuitive at first to eat less food to feel more satiated... But it all has to do with the signals you are sending to your body. Yes, salsa can spike your blood sugar. Yes, avocados do have carbs. For breakfast #2 -- I would eat sausages or bacon or some type of meat that does not involve apples. I would eat cauliflower or broccoli in its regular form, maybe steamed or sautéed and loaded with ghee. Give this a try and see how you feel. Focus on protein and fat to start your day. If you notice that you are feeling better, more energetic, more alert, more satiated...... and then you get sleepy after your lunch with more carbs -- well, you may have your answer right there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brewer5 Posted November 30, 2015 Share Posted November 30, 2015 But so often all I want is a banana or apple dipped in almond butter I meant to say: This combination ^ will never do anything good to help with energy and craving issues. It just won't. Please trust me -- I've been there and I have gained wisdom on this one. I'm on the other side now, and things are much better here. Do not feed cravings for sugar with any type of sugar. Feed them fat, feed them protein = silence them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmcbn Posted November 30, 2015 Share Posted November 30, 2015 I'm on day 27 and I continue to experience some frustrations. I was having trouble with snacking between meals and it was recommended to me that I increase my meal size portions so that I'm not hungry for 4-5 hours. But then I end up stuffing myself past when I'm full at each meal. I feel gross and bloated and like I've eaten too much. I also feel like I'm not leaner at all, and I feel like I'm eating too much. Also by day 27 I was hoping I'd wake up ready to start each day (all I want to do is stay in bed, as usual) and I am often craving both salty and sweet snacks (I try to put it off or I have a mini meal) even when I am eating huge regular meals. I just feel disappointed. And it feels like I'm teaching my brain to stuff food into my face even when I'm not hungry, and this can't be healthy! Help! I know the moderator will ask for what I've been eating so here is an example of two different days. I probably snack more than this, I am so hungry before the 4-5 hours is up! Even on day 27!! M1 - 4 eggs with two cups tomato salsa (depending on ingredients) and spinach and half an avocado. Coffee (can sometimes be problematic) with coconut milk. Post workout - two egg whites and half a sweet potato. M2 - huge bowl (3 cups) of turkey veggie chili (with sweet potato chunks) and a small bowl (1/2 cup?) of macadamia nuts M3 - perfect seared chicken breast and three cups broccoli slathered with ghee. M1 - two chicken Apple sausages and 1-2 cups cauliflower mash Post workout - turkey bits and sweet potato bits from the chili, about 1/2 to 1 cup total M2 - two no fuss salmon cakes with half an avocado and a cup of baby carrots Snack - banana, almond butter, turkey deli meat and guacamole, green pepper strips M3 - 1-2 cups roasted butternut squash, huge cut of grilled salmon, half a can of black olives, a cup of sautéed kale I'm usually hungry after dinner before bed. Sometimes I force myself to go to bed without eating but sometimes I eat a mini meal (a couple scrambled eggs with some carrots or peppers on the side, maybe an apple, and some macadamia nuts). Hi there I'd agree with Tom & Brewer that the volume of your meals looks good but that you're lacking in fat. With regard to the bloating & feeling gross I hate to always jump on the FODMAP wagon as I know some people are fine with them, but a lot of people are not (me included) and so I've highlighted all the high FODMAP foods you've listed that could be responsible, although I'd also switch the nuts/nut butters for a more optimal fat source. I used to practically live on avocados, beets & sweet potatoes but rarely touch them these days because I like to be able see my waist! These days, if I'm eating high FODMAP foods, I'll have only one in the day & be sure not to have any further for a day or two or my stomach just can't handle it - I get gassy, bloated & feel uncomfortably full, yet still feel kind of like I could eat more - difficult to explain... Take a look at this link from Paleo Mom which has a great info-graphic about what you can eat, what to avoid, and what should be eaten in moderation and see if it rings any alarm bells. It could just be that you happened to have a lot of these foods these past few days, but if this is fairly typical of your intake then you might want to ease off on the FODMAPS to let your gut heal and go through the slow process of discovering which veg work for you & in what quantities as it really does vary from one person to another. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
littlebluehouse Posted November 30, 2015 Author Share Posted November 30, 2015 Thanks for your replies everyone. I was advised before to eat MORE at breakfast so now I'm being advised to eat less. I don't know which to do! As for FODMAPS, I timed out my whole30 so that I'd have time to do the reintroductions before a big vacation this Christmas. I don't have time to eliminate all the FODMAP foods and then reintroduce those one by one. I'll try to cut back on carbs (though I still don't understand if i need to cut back on ALL veggies or just the starchy ones). I'll also try to abolish the fruits and nut butters and see if that helps. I generally feel the same as I felt before I did the whole30 (mostly paleo, mostly vegetarian, a few treats now and then), but it's a huge time commitment to do all the cooking and shopping. I wish my belly was flatter and I wish I had more energy, but that's ok. Ohhhh well. It's been an interesting experiment! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brewer5 Posted November 30, 2015 Share Posted November 30, 2015 You can experiment with FODMAP tolerance outside of a Whole 30. The green/yellow/red chart on the link that jmcbn provided is my favorite chart I have had hanging on my fridge for years now. As she said, I can tolerate some -- but man, if I combine them all together like I used to do on a Whole 30 -- it caused some serious bloat & issues. I would add to what she said: Coconut and apples are two of my worst offenders on the FODMAP list. Coconut milk in particular recently made my stomach rumble & I bloated up like a balloon. Umm, literally. And to clarify -- I am not necessarily telling you to eat less food energy-wise, but to experiment with more satiating fat and less blood-sugar raising carbohydrate. If you continue to have issues in the time beyond Whole 30, if you feel hungry often and you get tired of being a slave to cravings -- just remember my advice, please. It took me awhile for the light bulb to truly come on, but once it did -- WOW. What a difference. I can go for hours upon hours without thinking about food if I am busy -- and that is how it should be. We've got a lot of other things to do in life besides eat. Lastly, it seems that maybe you are looking for a "rule" regarding starchy vegetables -- and there is none. We each have to experiment and see how we feel best. Whether you are on a Whole 30 or not -- pay close attention to how you feel after your meals. The KEY SIGN for me after a meal, if it is doing wonky things to my blood sugar -- is that it makes me sleepy, foggy, sluggish. ...I don't know about you, but I hate that feeling -- and I do what I have to do to avoid it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seafarer Posted November 30, 2015 Share Posted November 30, 2015 I know it's confusing, and disheartening, but please don't give up. It might take longer, but it's worth taking the time to figure this out, even if you have to take a break and work on it again after Christmas. If you have issues that brought you here, they'll still be there if/when you go back to a one-size-fits-all eating plan. One-size-fits-all doesn't exist, which is why the experts here can only point you in directions to explore. For many people, they can find their answers in 30 days + time for proper reintroductions. For others, it just takes longer. And for others, they'll get close to ideal and be feeling really good, but come back later to do another W30, and fine tune the results even further. I think your idea of adding a few more days is a great idea. For what it's worth.... fruit, especially in the morning, makes me think about snacking for the rest of the day. A really hearty breakfast, preferably with starchy vegs, sets me up quite nicely for the rest of the day (eggs & a blended soup, usually). Nuts, for me, is never a good idea. Coffee is almost never a good idea (but I like it so when I indulge I just brace myself for the hit later). Underlying all the things that makes for *my* best version of health & energy, is a solid need for sleep, stress management, and regular hydration. It's complex, but infinitely rewarding when you figure out you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brewer5 Posted November 30, 2015 Share Posted November 30, 2015 This 18-minute TED talk is my favorite link of all time. Just in the first 5 minutes, she explains so many things that we all need to know. Please watch it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators ladyshanny Posted November 30, 2015 Administrators Share Posted November 30, 2015 This 18-minute TED talk is my favorite link of all time. Just in the first 5 minutes, she explains so many things that we all need to know. Please watch it. This was an amazing video!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seafarer Posted December 1, 2015 Share Posted December 1, 2015 Bewer5... thanks for the video link. Here is one of my favourite, which dovetails nicely with yours: https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=Dr+Terry+Wahls+TED+talk&FORM=VIRE6#view=detail&mid=EB4D9AA5E02145F00E7DEB4D9AA5E02145F00E7D Hmmmm..... maybe we should start a new thread: "Inspriational & Informative Videos". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
littlebluehouse Posted December 1, 2015 Author Share Posted December 1, 2015 Thank you Brewer and Seafarer! I will definitely watch the videos. And thanks for your advice and encouragement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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