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thegoldengrahamgirl

Getting lean, Whole30-style (non-keto)?

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Alright, Whole30 gurus.  Any tips to drop body fat (yes, yes eat MORE fat - got it!)?  kirkor, I'm looking at you!  And actually, I should say "post-whole30" because that's where I am.

 

Workout recommendations?  I have access to a basic gym with weights (Smith machine, no free squat rack) and cardio equipment and I like it all.

 

Any tweaks needed to template meals?

 

Any tweaks needed to water intake?

 

Any supplements?

 

I'm an open book.  And yes, I know MMMV.  Just testing the waters...the old "SAD" me would have instantly wanted to slash fat intake and start lifting as HEAVY as possible with some HIIT cardio.

 

Thanks!

 

-Lauren (GGG)

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Kettlebell work with an emphasis on swings, squats, presses, and getups. Pullups and pushups. Limit workouts to 30-45 minutes no more than 5 days per week. You can walk as much as you want otherwise. :) 

 

Here is why I recommend strength work... A quote from Pavel Tsatsouline: 

At StrongFirst we never focused on fat loss—and got it anyway as a side effect of our strength and power oriented training.  We used to call it “the what the hell effect” until StrongFirst master instructor Geoff Neupert came across a study by Izumiya et al. (2008).  From the study’s title: “Fast… fiber growth reduces fat mass and improves metabolic parameters…”  Neupert, an accomplished Olympic lifter himself, pointed out how lean weightlifters are—all without the dishonor of “cardio”.  Indeed, the Soviet national team had a standard of 6-7% bodyfat for everyone but heavyweights—and David Rigert, one of the greatest weightlifters of all time, had 4% bodyfat at a bodyweight of 200-220.  He called it “dry, fighting weight”.

What is extraordinary about the study is "... a reduction in accumulated white adipose tissue and improvements in metabolic parameters independent of physical activity or changes in the level of food intake." (the emphasis is mine—P.T.)  Neupert, who would become our resident fat loss expert, has commented, “So you don't have to rely on things like EPOC, otherwise known as "the Afterburn Effect", and you don't have to rely on getting your heart rate up to burn off calories.  And without changing your diet—or going on a diet!  How cool is this?!”

More great news: you do not have to wait until you have build as much muscle as a Russian weightlifter.   The researchers concluded that, "The results from the current study indicate that modest increases in type 2B skeletal muscle mass can have a profound systemic effect on whole-body metabolism and adipose tissue."
 
 

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Ya, weights for sure. Good for your metabolism, and also for nutrient partitioning.

A lot of my info on water intake is anecdotal, but I think there's nothing really bad to be said about getting a gallon a day in.

But the main thing for dropping fat is having that deficit. Since you mentioned keto in your title, I'll just say that a lot of very-overweight people seem to lose weight without too much of a deficit when they first start keto, but I think we must all follow the laws of thermodynamics at some point. And since this is in the off-track sub-forum, I'll say that my interpretation of that is that losing weight at some point means accepting the fact that you will be hungry.

Yes a Whole30 can get your hormones lined up, and eating to the template can help teach a person what satiety feels like vs. non-hunger cravings, etc., but I think if you are consuming less calories than you are burning, then the result will be hunger. There's really nothing magic about any way of eating that can change the physical/metabolic reality of a caloric deficit. Keto, fasting, water, etc. can help mitigate the effects, but your body is going to want to hold on to those fat stores.

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Fabulous, thanks guys. My lift heavy instinct was right. Every time I head to the gym at work during the moon hour, a coworker tells me to have a nice run. I finally started singing a song for him: "I'm all about the lifts, 'bout the lifts, no runnin '." I'm no cardio queen. No problem on the water, either (except my intake on the weekends sucks); I think 1 gal is ~3.5L and I can do 4-5L. I know it's important for fat oxidation.

I've dealt with hunger before but hopefully it was be less crazy making now that my insulin and blood sugar should be more stable. I'm hoping the Whole30(44) has reset my metabolism and hormones well enough that I can run a deficit without totally freaking out my adrenals.

I just noticed some new kettle bells have appeared in our apartment complex gym when I was there this morning. Time to get after it!

Thanks again & cheers,

-Lauren

PS - "moon" = noon and was be = will be. iPhone typos

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You know, it's funny.  I keep reading about how I should be lifting weights.  I keep agreeing.  And then I go outside and the air is fresh and my feet want to move and my body follows -- and I alternately walk and jog instead.  It may be that I am crazy, but I love the feeling of doing it enough that I will forego a certain amount of lean.  

 

Then again, it's winter and cold.  I can see deciding that I'd rather lift inside when it's 20 degrees outside.

 

ThyPeace, for me, all moving is good, because I'm far from the "let's optimize things" stage.

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On ‎12‎/‎19‎/‎2015 at 8:04 PM, kirkor said:

Ya, weights for sure. Good for your metabolism, and also for nutrient partitioning.

A lot of my info on water intake is anecdotal, but I think there's nothing really bad to be said about getting a gallon a day in.

But the main thing for dropping fat is having that deficit. Since you mentioned keto in your title, I'll just say that a lot of very-overweight people seem to lose weight without too much of a deficit when they first start keto, but I think we must all follow the laws of thermodynamics at some point. And since this is in the off-track sub-forum, I'll say that my interpretation of that is that losing weight at some point means accepting the fact that you will be hungry.

Yes a Whole30 can get your hormones lined up, and eating to the template can help teach a person what satiety feels like vs. non-hunger cravings, etc., but I think if you are consuming less calories than you are burning, then the result will be hunger. There's really nothing magic about any way of eating that can change the physical/metabolic reality of a caloric deficit. Keto, fasting, water, etc. can help mitigate the effects, but your body is going to want to hold on to those fat stores.

Hi there hoping you can help with a similar problem. I'm on day 10 of my 1st W30. I'm a fitness instructor trying to lose fat and gain muscle. I teach several moderate to high intensity cardio classes like Zumba, Hip-hop, Step 5-6 days a week and there's really no way for me to "take it easy" or be at a low impact pace and sufficiently instruct the class. With that being said I feel like I am burning more muscle than building. Here's my eating & teaching schedule to give you an idea of how to help:

M1: 2 slices of compliant bacon, 3 eggs cooked in ghee or olive oil

M2: spaghetti squash with ground turkey meat sauce, roasted brussel sprouts

Pre-workout snack: 1 HB egg, cashew butter

Teach Zumba @ 5:30p followed by Hip-hop at 7p (and at least twice a week these classes are followed by my taking a Body Pump class in an effort to build muscle)
Post-workout meal: chicken breast and sweet potato

M: same as M2 or twice baked potato with ground beef & cauliflower rice

I'm barely drinking 90oz of water but working on drinking more...any suggestions or feedback is much appreciated :) Also, 5'3, 176lbs if that helps

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On 1/26/2017 at 10:23 PM, kirkor said:

How's your fat in M2 & 3?

Are your serving sizes at the higher end of the template?

I'm having a hard time figuring out what to add for fat during my meals other than avocado. I think I may need a low FODMAP so could you suggest what other fat sources I can add to meals 1 2 and 3 since cooking them in fat doesn't count?

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I'm assuming you know that avocado is high FODMAP, right?

How about home-made mayo, or mayo based sauces, ghee, compliant bacon, chicken wings with skins on, fatty cuts of meat (like brisket), coconut milk (go easy on portion size for low FODMAP), coconut flesh/flakes, all kinds of nut/seed/olive/avocado/coconut oils (avocado oil is low FODMAP) which can also be made into dressings with some ACV or other compliant vinegar, or olives..... Then there are also all kinds of rendered animal fats.

Lots of options out there!

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On 1/30/2017 at 10:36 AM, jmcbn said:

I'm assuming you know that avocado is high FODMAP, right?

How about home-made mayo, or mayo based sauces, ghee, compliant bacon, chicken wings with skins on, fatty cuts of meat (like brisket), coconut milk (go easy on portion size for low FODMAP), coconut flesh/flakes, all kinds of nut/seed/olive/avocado/coconut oils (avocado oil is low FODMAP) which can also be made into dressings with some ACV or other compliant vinegar, or olives..... Then there are also all kinds of rendered animal fats.

Lots of options out there!

Yeah I have been reading about the high FODMAP foods. I also read in earlier forum posts that cooking with those fats you named wasn't considered a serving of fat so I hadn't considered any of the nut/seed/olive & coconut oils to use or any animal fats. Has this changed since? There's a ton of information on here (and on Google) so not sure what is law. Also good to know I can have the wings (which I've been consuming a ton of YUM), compliant bacon and fatty cuts of meat. Going to includedump ranch more. I don't like mayo.

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3 hours ago, Alvaneice said:

I also read in earlier forum posts that cooking with those fats you named wasn't considered a serving of fat so I hadn't considered any of the nut/seed/olive & coconut oils to use or any animal fats. Has this changed since?

No, this hasn't changed, but there's nothing to stop you using those oils as dressings, or added more after cooking in the way you'd add butter to a potato for instance although in this instance you'd add ghee.... Hope this helps.

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15 minutes ago, jmcbn said:

No, this hasn't changed, but there's nothing to stop you using those oils as dressings, or added more after cooking in the way you'd add butter to a potato for instance although in this instance you'd add ghee.... Hope this helps.

Gotcha! Thanks so much :)

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