Brewer5: A Fresh Start

[Brewer5]

Thanks. I will try to make my way through the 33 pages

 

Personally, I get all of the benefits you mentioned (ok, besides muscle, I haven't a clue how much muscle I do or don't have) from the regular Whole30 eating plan. I mean, I guess I could buy the idea that it could be even better, but I'm just trying to figure out if making it "harder" would be worth it for me at this point. 

 

Hey, if it ain't broke ~ don't fix it!

 

Everyone has their own personal level of carb tolerance.  Mine (and a few others' here) happens to be pretty low.

[kirkor]

I'd read through this thread and mine (in my sig) and read the books we talk about, the blogs we link to, and the videos/podcasts.

[newwhole30er]

Hey, if it ain't broke ~ don't fix it!

 

Everyone has their own personal level of carb tolerance.  Mine (and a few others' here) happens to be pretty low.

 

So I was in a rush and posted quickly before really finishing my thoughts.

 

The truth is that I've been trying to figure out the carb issue for a while now.

 

There seem to be so many conflicting opinions. The Whole30 book itself SEEMS to recommend limiting carbs unless you are very active. Then there's one particular moderator here who gives dire warnings about what low-carb can do to women. Meanwhile the book Why We Get Fat (which admittedly I haven't read all the way through yet, but I've read some of it and heard others talk about it!) says that carbs are what make us fat and definitely my most major goal for eating this way is weight loss. Some people say if you are pregnant or breastfeeding (I'm the latter) you NEED carbs for your baby's sake.

 

It's just so hard to know what the right way to go is. How did you figure it out for yourself?

[ladyshanny]

So I was in a rush and posted quickly before really finishing my thoughts.

 

The truth is that I've been trying to figure out the carb issue for a while now.

 

There seem to be so many conflicting opinions. The Whole30 book itself SEEMS to recommend limiting carbs unless you are very active. Then there's one particular moderator here who gives dire warnings about what low-carb can do to women. Meanwhile the book Why We Get Fat (which admittedly I haven't read all the way through yet, but I've read some of it and heard others talk about it!) says that carbs are what make us fat and definitely my most major goal for eating this way is weight loss. Some people say if you are pregnant or breastfeeding (I'm the latter) you NEED carbs for your baby's sake.

 

It's just so hard to know what the right way to go is. How did you figure it out for yourself?

haha, you're probably referring to me? I don't discourage low carb or people doing what feels best for them.  What I do always post, especially for people who are going to experiment with purposefully reducing their carb intake, is what to watch for, should it go sideways.  And especially if those people are new to "whole foods eating" or Whole30.  

 

Brewer and Jess and a couple others here are so experienced with Whole30 and have spent a long and detailed time working out exactly how they feel best which is great.  And as I said in a previous post, no one is going to go to their homes and force feed them potatoes.  But just know that not all people (espeically women) can thrive in a VLC situation (just like not all people thrive with a surplus of carbohydrates). People may get focussed on weight loss and how they might physically feel overall, not knowing to watch for certain things that creep in so slowly as to be unnoticed until they are in a serious state.

 

That said, through no particular desire to do so, I've ended up in a ketogenic state and am losing fat somewhat rapidly right now while gaining strength and muscle with not that much effort.  Because I know that for me, I can have negative side effects, I check myself constantly for: hair loss, skin health, menstrual health and regularity, anxiety, mood swings, headaches, poor sleep, cravings as well as any neurotic thoughts about restriction and tracking of macros etc.  For the last three weeks I've checked out great on all these points and feel just fine. Because I've naturally ended up here, I'm fine with it. The SECOND that things in the list above start to suffer, I will need to check in with myself and make sure that I make whatever changes are necessary.

 

I'm not the Keto Scare Police and I've never discouraged anyone from trying to find their perfect balance.  I just want folks to know what "sideways" might look like if it happens.  And if you weren't referring to me, then disregard everything I just said, LOL!

[Brewer5]

I've been LCHF consistently for the past 28 days.  I am hesitant to really call it "keto" at this point, because my goal has not been to get the highest ketones possible, as it has been in the past.  I have just worked on feeling good and having consistent energy ~ which means following the "protein+veggie+fat" template most of the time.  I have not had any fruit or starchy veggies.  I eat when I am truly hungry, and I stop when I am satiated.

 

It's been really, really good.

 

...

 

So I am not making any big public announcements about my goals -- just like I have decided that I am probably not doing any more Whole 30's.  I need my goals to be my own and I need to be accountable to myself.  It's taken me awhile to get here, but I like it.  It's actually very empowering and not scary at all to be in the driver's seat -- when you are making good choices.

 

I guess I sort of set out with a goal of ketosis lately ...  But ultimately, I just want to feel my best.  

 

I haven't been monitoring anything ... no spreadsheet ... I haven't even weighed myself in weeks.  I don't care.

 

What I know for sure is that about the same time I increased my walking goal is when I began to struggle with the coconut manna, nuts, and 100% chocolate calling my name in the kitchen.  This should have sent up all sorts of red flags, and honestly it did (simply because I have been down that road and it takes me nowhere good) ~ but my brain said "Oh, hey, increased activity = increased hunger.  Let's go for it!  That sounds FUN!"  

 

Now, I am not on a Whole 30, and I do not have a weight loss goal, and I do not believe this does crazy things to my blood sugar (come on, really?  I can't even type that with a straight face) -- so this would probably be fine, except for the fact that these things really upset my digestion.  

 

It's not eggs!  Hallelujah, folks...  after zero eggs for a couple of days, I am pretty confident it is not eggs.  This all began when I got into the blankety blank blank COCONUT.  That's done now... we have officially broken up.  I am fine with oil, but the milk and the actual coconut are bad news.

 

I was so happy to get back to my spinach, egg, egg yolk, tuna breakfast this morning.  There are no words.  Wait, yes there are -- I wanted to HUG my breakfast.  haha

 

I also tested my blood sugar and ketones this morning, and those numbers confirmed how I have been feeling lately.  Blood sugar was up, ketones were down... and that is not a good place for me to be.  I could feel it ~ which is why I tested.

 

So, yes, our bodies are giving us signals all the time.  Today is a new day!  Full of eggs, and no coconut.  In fact, no nuts and no chocolate of any kind, either.  I've got the FODMAP list out on my kitchen counter, and I am going to follow it to the best of my ability.  Nothing is worth having my digestion upset again.

[Brewer5]

And if you weren't referring to me, then disregard everything I just said, LOL!

 

Nope.  Everything you just said fits in here perfectly ~ whether she was talking about you or not.  

[newwhole30er]

haha, you're probably referring to me? I don't discourage low carb or people doing what feels best for them.  What I do always post, especially for people who are going to experiment with purposefully reducing their carb intake, is what to watch for, should it go sideways.  And especially if those people are new to "whole foods eating" or Whole30.  

 

Brewer and Jess and a couple others here are so experienced with Whole30 and have spent a long and detailed time working out exactly how they feel best which is great.  And as I said in a previous post, no one is going to go to their homes and force feed them potatoes.  But just know that not all people (espeically women) can thrive in a VLC situation (just like not all people thrive with a surplus of carbohydrates). People may get focussed on weight loss and how they might physically feel overall, not knowing to watch for certain things that creep in so slowly as to be unnoticed until they are in a serious state.

 

That said, through no particular desire to do so, I've ended up in a ketogenic state and am losing fat somewhat rapidly right now while gaining strength and muscle with not that much effort.  Because I know that for me, I can have negative side effects, I check myself constantly for: hair loss, skin health, menstrual health and regularity, anxiety, mood swings, headaches, poor sleep, cravings as well as any neurotic thoughts about restriction and tracking of macros etc.  For the last three weeks I've checked out great on all these points and feel just fine. Because I've naturally ended up here, I'm fine with it. The SECOND that things in the list above start to suffer, I will need to check in with myself and make sure that I make whatever changes are necessary.

 

I'm not the Keto Scare Police and I've never discouraged anyone from trying to find their perfect balance.  I just want folks to know what "sideways" might look like if it happens.  And if you weren't referring to me, then disregard everything I just said, LOL!

LOL ladyshanny, yes it was you!

Thanks for the clarification. Just curious, what does that mean that you ended up in a ketogenic state without even wanting to? How does one know that they are in a ketogenic state? And what gets one there? Do you mean you've just happened not to eat many carbs?

 

Are there any resources anyone can point me to regarding low-carb and breastfeeding?

[newwhole30er]

Btw, last night I had white potatoes with dinner. I'm on day 10 and this is only the second time I've eaten white potatoes. I felt good all night, but woke up this morning groggy and with a headache, which is NOT the way I've been waking up for the last several days, and I went to bed earlier than usual, not later. So I'm inclined to blame the potatoes...but I don't know if that means I have an issue with carbs in general or white potatoes in particular.

[newwhole30er]

Sorry for the endless questions but can you guys clarify for me what low-carb vs. very-low-carb vs. moderate-carb look like?

 

Is 1 fist-size serving of starchy veg a day (per the recommendations) low-carb already? I assume very-low-carb is what Brewer5 is talking about, no starchy vegetable or fruit at all? 

 

Can't find a link now but I know Melissa Hartwig says the W30 is written to be moderate everything- fat, carbs, and protein. Not high or low in any of those. 

 

Just trying to figure out if I'm doing it right!!

[Brewer5]

^ On my phone so can't type much ~ but that is EXACTLY why white potatoes got cut out for me. I woke up with that heavy, hungover feeling. No thanks!

[ladyshanny]

LOL ladyshanny, yes it was you!

Thanks for the clarification. Just curious, what does that mean that you ended up in a ketogenic state without even wanting to? How does one know that they are in a ketogenic state? And what gets one there? Do you mean you've just happened not to eat many carbs?

 

Are there any resources anyone can point me to regarding low-carb and breastfeeding?

Haha, I knew it!  LOL! 

 

I personally know if I am in (and out of) ketosis because of the way my urine smells.  Gross, but true. 

 

I didn't set out to get into ketosis, I set out to be mindful of how my portion sizes had grown and how much "energy" in the form of additional starchy veggie I actually needed for my activity level.  I realized I was rarely experiencing hunger between meals and had gained more weight than I was comfortable with.  The recommendation is a "fist sized serving" of starchy veggie and it turns out my fists aren't the size of a giant sweet potato or 12 baby potatoes.    I naturally don't choose to eat fruit because I've never really found a good "place" for it in my meals.  So I was not surprised to find myself here, especially because I'm in a pretty good "season" of life right now.  But I also know from previous experience that this won't last; that my body goes in cycles and depending on stress, exercise, sleep, illness etc, I need more carbs to feel my best and I have to be cognizant that sometimes the amount of carbs that cause me to feel my best are not the same number that cause me to fit my pants the best.  

[Carlaccini]

 

It's not eggs!  Hallelujah, folks...  after zero eggs for a couple of days, I am pretty confident it is not eggs.  This all began when I got into the blankety blank blank COCONUT.  That's done now... we have officially broken up.  I am fine with oil, but the milk and the actual coconut are bad news.

 

I was so happy to get back to my spinach, egg, egg yolk, tuna breakfast this morning.  There are no words.  Wait, yes there are -- I wanted to HUG my breakfast.  haha

 

I also tested my blood sugar and ketones this morning, and those numbers confirmed how I have been feeling lately.  Blood sugar was up, ketones were down... and that is not a good place for me to be.  I could feel it ~ which is why I tested.

 

So, yes, our bodies are giving us signals all the time.  Today is a new day!  Full of eggs, and no coconut.  In fact, no nuts and no chocolate of any kind, either.  I've got the FODMAP list out on my kitchen counter, and I am going to follow it to the best of my ability.  Nothing is worth having my digestion upset again.

 

Yay!!!! to eggs being in!

I am coming to the same conclusion with regards to coconut stuff.  I am fine with regards to the oil but anything else outside of that - maybe a once and while thing - certainly not an everyday thing.

 

I feel like hugging my breakfast every morning - I seriously love my breakfast.  It is by far my favourite meal of the day even though it's basically the same every day.  Some slight variations - but basically the same.

[newwhole30er]

So what is your amazing breakfast Carlaccini? Or is that information hidden in the last 33 pages?

[Brewer5]

Well, I made it through the entire day ~ staying on the green of the FODMAP list.  The only things I consumed that were not in the green column were my coffee, and the minuscule amount of garlic and onion that were in the big scoop of olive tapenade that went on my salad.  Happy to say I did NOT have that bloated and distended feeling today.  I even sliced open my garlic jalapeño olives, and removed the garlic!    

 

I had one egg, two yolks, and a hard-boiled egg today ~ I think I am okay there.  Whew.

 

---------

 

I've got some deep thoughts tonight.

 

For those of you who have watched That Sugar Film -- do you remember at the very end of the movie, close to the credits......  Where he talked about sugar contributing to our feelings of "want it now" or "immediate gratification" ...   Something like that.  I need to go back and watch it again.

 

I have thought about that so many times.  

 

I'm not sure if I can emphasize how much I feel like carbohydrates are a drug to me.   I don't want or need to get into a potato debate... that's not what this is about.  I am saying:  When I am under the influence of a lot of carbohydrate, I feel like a different person.  It is sort of like being drunk.  It takes the edge off, it is calming.  That is proven.  It is sedating.  I think it helps soften those sharp edges in life that we may otherwise find painful.  

 

I don't make the best choices in life when I am living from craving to craving to craving.  I have made shitty choices with our finances...  For example, I have put Panda Express on a credit card -- multiple times.  Yep.  Owning it.  

 

There have also been some large purchases...  Maybe irresponsible purchases.  They were driven by emotion, and not always reason.

 

This is the longest stretch I have gone, without resorting back to those comfort foods.  I am not going back to that cycle.  This feels very much like when I quit smoking... having to find new ways to cope.  It is liberating, and wonderful, and joyous, and at times... uncomfortable.

 

I guess I will leave it at that, for tonight.  I have tried to type out more, and it's just not going well.  I had some bad news tonight, and I am working through some feelings...  with the help of some silver tequila.  I think I'd better just go to bed now, and face reality tomorrow.  

[Brewer5]

On a brighter note:

 

I did not get my steps in yesterday ~ even though we had a nice walk around the neighborhood.  But that's because I spent quite a bit of time at the dining room table, learning to play chess with my youngest.  I had never played chess in my life.  We bought a game awhile back called No Stress Chess ...  It comes with cards, so you draw one and it tells you which piece to move, and how that piece is able to move.  So we started out with this basic, "Level 1" way of playing, went on to "Level 2" ~ and after a couple of hours, we played a real, actual chess game.

 

We still have a lot to learn about all of the little "extra" rules and things you can do ~ but I thought it was pretty cool to learn something new like that at my ripe old age.      We had a lot of fun.  And my youngest has learned that he is actually really good at it!  A natural, I'd say.

 

Also:

 

I asked for a Happy Light for Christmas, and I just plugged that dude in while I am cooking my huggable breakfast.  It has been a dark and dreary couple of days here, and I have to stay very aware of my propensity toward SAD.  On bright, sunny days I feel so, so SO much better.

[kirkor]

For those of you who have watched That Sugar Film -- do you remember at the very end of the movie, close to the credits......  Where he talked about sugar contributing to our feelings of "want it now" or "immediate gratification" ...   Something like that.  I need to go back and watch it again.

 

I have thought about that so many times.

I got you, fam.

It's about 1:18 in ...

Right after the part about sugar being used for celebrations, and being one of the ways we communicate love.

David Wolfe quotes Rudolf Steiner saying, essentially, that sugar *causes* materialism. The development of the sugar metabolism, and sugar-as-drug culture, developed a materialstic culture.

And the next guy talking says "We live in a time of instant gratification; nobody wants to wait for anything. What's sugar? It's quick energy: straight to the brain!" and then there's a crazy montage of people doing manic things.

[kirkor]

I asked for a Happy Light for Christmas, and I just plugged that dude in while I am cooking my huggable breakfast. It has been a dark and dreary couple of days here, and I have to stay very aware of my propensity toward SAD. On bright, sunny days I feel so, so SO much better.

On a related note, I've been *loving* my daylight alarm clock.

[Carlaccini]

So what is your amazing breakfast Carlaccini? Or is that information hidden in the last 33 pages?

 

It's hidden in many places on the forum - but I don't think I posted it here within the 33 pages.  What you have to understand is that I don't presently eat Keto style - but I am genuinely interested in it as I do believe throwing a starchy veg into the mix isn't always going to be the answer.  There are days that admittedly have been to heavy on the starchy veg only because I am emptying our fridge of vegetables.  And that's what's left.  And then I feel it.  I also feel it on the days that I don't eat enough either.  So I have to keep it balanced - when it is balanced properly - I do achieve keto - urine smells, mind is super clear, I crave NOTHING and I feel fantastic.  But to reiterate once again - everyone is different.

 

Okay onto my hug gable breakfast     - I have issues with both AIP and FODMAP foods - so while neither one is completely eliminated - the exposure is limited.

 

duck fat heated in a pan add pre cooked seasoned ground beef, anywhere from 1/3 to a 1/2 of cubed cooked sweet potato (seasoned with S&P, rosemary, a tiny bit of garlic powder and paprika), and handfuls, and handfuls of spinach, or kale, or turnip greens, or collards. I always try to make sure that the cooked amount of greens is equal to the amount the starchy veg I am consuming.

[Carlaccini]

It's hidden in many places on the forum - but I don't think I posted it here within the 33 pages.  What you have to understand is that I don't presently eat Keto style - but I am genuinely interested in it as I do believe throwing a starchy veg into the mix isn't always going to be the answer.  There are days that admittedly have been to heavy on the starchy veg only because I am emptying our fridge of vegetables.  And that's what's left.  And then I feel it.  I also feel it on the days that I don't eat enough either.  So I have to keep it balanced - when it is balanced properly - I do achieve keto - urine smells, mind is super clear, I crave NOTHING and I feel fantastic.  But to reiterate once again - everyone is different.

 

Okay onto my hug gable breakfast     - I have issues with both AIP and FODMAP foods - so while neither one is completely eliminated - the exposure is limited.

 

duck fat heated in a pan add pre cooked seasoned ground beef, anywhere from 1/3 to a 1/2 of cubed cooked sweet potato (seasoned with S&P, rosemary, a tiny bit of garlic powder and paprika), and handfuls, and handfuls of spinach, or kale, or turnip greens, or collards. I always try to make sure that the cooked amount of greens is equal to the amount the starchy veg I am consuming.

 

Also forgot to mention - I also slather said breakfast with mayo.......

[Brewer5]

I got you, fam.

It's about 1:18 in ...

Right after the part about sugar being used for celebrations, and being one of the ways we communicate love.

David Wolfe quotes Rudolf Steiner saying, essentially, that sugar *causes* materialism. The development of the sugar metabolism, and sugar-as-drug culture, developed a materialstic culture.

And the next guy talking says "We live in a time of instant gratification; nobody wants to wait for anything. What's sugar? It's quick energy: straight to the brain!" and then there's a crazy montage of people doing manic things.

 

kirkor....  Yes.  THIS.  Thank you.

 

[Brewer5]

On a related note, I've been *loving* my daylight alarm clock.

 

I discovered this during my Amazon Black Friday deal surfing...  Crazy good reviews...  (Crazy price tag, too, speaking of finances...    )  

 

But hey ~ this is why it's in my CART and not in my HOUSE.   

 

Is yours similar?

 

I thought it would be a great idea for my teenager...  We all keep our rooms very dark, but we also go to bed pretty late.  So it is very hard for him to get up in the morning, even when he has slept a long time... and I think part of it is because his room is SO dark.  I feel like we need to be on a better rhythm, but it's pretty hard to turn around on a consistent basis.  We're night owls.

 

Philips HF3520 Wake-Up Light With Colored Sunrise Simulation, White

 

http://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B0093162RM?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=ox_sc_sfl_title_11&smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER

[newwhole30er]

Haha, I knew it!  LOL! 

 

I personally know if I am in (and out of) ketosis because of the way my urine smells.  Gross, but true. 

 

I didn't set out to get into ketosis, I set out to be mindful of how my portion sizes had grown and how much "energy" in the form of additional starchy veggie I actually needed for my activity level.  I realized I was rarely experiencing hunger between meals and had gained more weight than I was comfortable with.  The recommendation is a "fist sized serving" of starchy veggie and it turns out my fists aren't the size of a giant sweet potato or 12 baby potatoes.    I naturally don't choose to eat fruit because I've never really found a good "place" for it in my meals.  So I was not surprised to find myself here, especially because I'm in a pretty good "season" of life right now.  But I also know from previous experience that this won't last; that my body goes in cycles and depending on stress, exercise, sleep, illness etc, I need more carbs to feel my best and I have to be cognizant that sometimes the amount of carbs that cause me to feel my best are not the same number that cause me to fit my pants the best.  

Thanks, that was very helpful.

So would keeping to that one fist-sized serving of starchy veg a day and not eating any fruit be considered VERY low carb/ketogenic? Or just low carb?

 

I did some more research on the breastfeeding/low-carb issue. Seems that if one actually does go into a ketogenic state, the ketones are released into the blood and urine, so very possibly also in breastmilk, and we don't know what effect that would have on the baby. 

[Brewer5]

"Did you know that human newborns and exclusively breastfed babies are in ketosis? ¹ I am a dietitian, with two years of intensive postgraduate training in nutrition, and I didn’t realise this until just over a month ago. The fact that human babies are naturally in ketosis is an inconvenient truth because it implies that ketosis (which also occurs when fasting or eating a low-carbohydrate, high-fat diet) is not only a natural metabolic state for human infants, but that it’s probably beneficial too. Nature seldom does something without a reason, so it’s likely that ketosis may confer some kind of evolutionary advantage to human infants. Research suggests that it may be one of the main factors behind the development of the large human brain."

 

http://realmealrevolution.com/real-thinking/ketosis-key-to-human-babies-big-brains

 

I am not advising you one way or another ~ but I find it interesting that most folks don't realize this.  My babies got very little nourishment before my milk came in ~ which as you know, can take days.  Good old colostrum, and ketosis.  It's how we're made.

[kirkor]

Philips HF3520

Yepp, that's the one I have. I just hope it lasts!

[newwhole30er]

That's VERY interesting, Brewer5! Thanks for posting.