Do you ever feel like you need something more?

[ereiam]

I have tried so many diets over the years, Overeaters Anonymous among them. I have been eating paleo since February and have never had a better relationship with food. I finished a W30 in August, then I just did a W15 to get back on track. But I feel like I need something more.

I didn't like OA because it promised that if you worked the steps you would be freed of food obsession. I was skeptical, but I tried it and zip, nada, nothing. I have had tons of therapy (depression/emotional issues) and I have a strong faith so I don't think I was the mess that OA wants you to believe you are. However, I am still a mess about food.

I am a total and complete food addict. I think about it all the time, I dream about it, I talk about it. It's not always this bad, but right now I am obsessing a lot. I'm still grain/dairy/processed food free, but I'm struggling.

I joined a Yahoo group for food addicts. This group believes in the wheat free/sugar free thing, but is obviously not paleo. I have been reading the emails and some I really relate to and some I don't. But overall, I think it is helping.

Anyone else feel the need for something more than W30 to help them deal with their food issues?

[jennrider]

Maybe you need to go longer? I finished in the middle of September. I'm starting another one on Novembet 1st. I never felt like I had a horrible relationship with food, but it hasn't taken me long to start slipping back into old habits. When I finished W30 I felt like I could never get up the motivation to do another. I don't want to go through week 1 again. I have learned that 30 days was not enough time for me to 'fix' some of my emotional food issues. I'm ready to go again, this time a little cleaner (no nuts!) and a little more prepared for the cooking and shopping side of things I have been 90% compliant since finishing so I'm hoping my week 1 won't be horrible. You're doing great just by continuing to figure out what works for you.

[heatherdarbs]

I usually suggest to people to remove wheat and sugar, initially, as opposed to everything all at once. It seems more feasible for those who have chronic cravings; it's a place to start and in my opinion, it's a huge step in the right direction for your health.

Do you feel compelled to do this for weight loss or overall health? I also find that when people attempt to tailor their diet for weight loss, everything gets caught up in "don't veer" mode and the feeling of deprivation sets in. You don't have to turn yourself into a sling shot and try to take yourself to the opposite end of the spectrum; it comes back with a vengeance! Just do what you think you can handle, one day at a time. Hopefully you'll eventually stumble upon the underlying motivation in craving food…and maybe you won't…maybe it's just something you'll learn to work on managing.

I don't drink very much alcohol, but the one thing I've been itchy over during Whole30 is alcohol, simply because it's not an option. My cat meows at a shut door, but never walks through it when I open it – we all do it!

[ereiam]

Do you feel compelled to do this for weight loss or overall health? I also find that when people attempt to tailor their diet for weight loss, everything gets caught up in "don't veer" mode and the feeling of deprivation sets in.

I think I am past being focused on weight loss. I've lost 90 pounds, and according to the BMI guidelines, I should lose 20 more. But I am so happy with my body right now, compared to where I was 2 years ago, that I am focused on finding a way that I can eat for life and for health. I would love to know if there was a reason behind my cravings, but haven't found one in the last 44 years of struggling with food. I'd love to know if there were a reason, but for now I must learn to live healthfully even with my cravings.

[Tasha]

Did you read ISWF? Even after reading it, I have to go back and read certain sections over again.

I think the "addictive" nature of food will often take longer than 30 days to get rid of.

It was a relationship-- an emotional one.

I always heard people talking about emotional eating but it wasn't till ISWF that I got the brain-connection: I wasn't just eating because I was emotional, I was eating because I got REWARDED in my brain when I did. My emotions CHANGED when I ate.

Changing these patterns is a shift. Emotionally, it can be almost like a death or a divorce because you are ending or changing that relationship.

When you eat (outside of hunger) ask yourself what you are feeding-- boredom? Stress? Anger? Loneliness? Fear?

When you are turning to food emotionally, it is like when alcoholics turn to a drink or smokers to a cigarette. It's a coping mechanism for something. It doesn't have to be a major issue,it could be something small. In my teens, it was loneliness-- I didn't feel like I belonged anywhere, I was picked on and depressed-- food made me feel better. Currently, it's stress. I have small kids and the work/lack of sleep/constant need to care for other human beings can drive me bonkers and I was "treating" or "rewarding" myself with food.

There's a great book called Mind Over Mood that helps you figure out your thought patterns. It might be worth a look, or maybe try working with a counsellor outside of the food realm. The need to eat can fall outside of "food tastes good" --it has to be more than that forint to sustain itself so long.

When I looked at what I was doing, I realized I wasn't treating or rewarding myself, I was hurting myself. I had to replace that behavior with something else.

Best of luck to you!

[ereiam]

Changing these patterns is a shift. Emotionally, it can be almost like a death or a divorce because you are ending or changing that relationship.

Yes! What I am currently experiencing - the obsessive thoughts about food, dreams, cravings - feels like I am grieving. All I can do is think of what I'm losing right now. And that's not to say that I don't have peace of mind, because generally I do. I just think it is my body and my brain saying goodbye to unhealthy foods.

I did read ISWF. It helped me tons to realize that certain foods are made to be addictive. And it will take me time to work that out. Right now, though, my brain is having tantrums about not eating those foods.

The cool thing is though, that I find myself not veering from W30 foods, whether it is in meal planning or grocery shopping. My habits are becoming compliant. My head is just a little slower.

[heatherdarbs]

I think I am past being focused on weight loss. I've lost 90 pounds, and according to the BMI guidelines, I should lose 20 more. But I am so happy with my body right now, compared to where I was 2 years ago, that I am focused on finding a way that I can eat for life and for health. I would love to know if there was a reason behind my cravings, but haven't found one in the last 44 years of struggling with food. I'd love to know if there were a reason, but for now I must learn to live healthfully even with my cravings.

Wow - what an incredible accomplishment, though; especially achieving a place of comfort with your body. I'm curious (if not emotional), if the cravings are physiological somehow. My mom has strong and constant cravings and has a very hard time turning away goodies, but she's very comfortable in her skin...hmmmm.

[Laura B]

Just hang in there and keep up the good food habits as much as you can. You have had a long relationship with food and it will take more than a few months to change it. The analogy of a divorce is an awesome example.

[Elata]

I battle with the same demons: food obsession, emotional eating and overeating. During the years I learned a lot about nutrition, about foods without breaks, how our brain reacts to certain foods and yet, even staying away from all the wrong products, i still feel the need to eat in order to cope with stress, with loneliness and other feelings. Sure, Whole30 and Paleo/primal helps with cravings a lot, but if it's psychological problem, you have to work on that. You know, sometimes it's not the diet to blame. And just like you, I try to work on my problems and analyze the underlying reasons.

[Renee Lee]

To be perfectly honest and blunt, the Whole30 was not and is not built for folks that are suffering from addiction, binging or other serious issues like that. Does it help those populations significantly anyway? Yes. Have M&D changed some of their program language to help those folks MORE? Yes.

However, that doesn't change the fact that eating disorders and food addictions are a BIG deal, and the Whole30 cannot claim to completely resolve those issues. You have make HUGE strides with your 90lb weight loss and the improvements in your food relationships, but if you're at all feeling like you're only 70% of the way there, you owe it to yourself to get outside help. I'd really recommend a licensed therapist, but if the Yahoo groups and OA were helping, then by all means stick with that. There's no right answer; whatever you need, as long as it's a positive influence!

[kb0426]

I think I am past being focused on weight loss. I've lost 90 pounds, and according to the BMI guidelines, I should lose 20 more. But I am so happy with my body right now, compared to where I was 2 years ago, that I am focused on finding a way that I can eat for life and for health. I would love to know if there was a reason behind my cravings, but haven't found one in the last 44 years of struggling with food. I'd love to know if there were a reason, but for now I must learn to live healthfully even with my cravings.

I am not sure if this will help, but I sat down a long time ago and really took a look at what specific food cravings meant to me.

Crunchy: anger, frustration, stressed

Creamy: sad, lonely, having that "I need comfort food" feeling

Sweets: bored, tired

Remembering of course that there are biochemical drivers at work, if you just ate and know that you are not hungry, and you get a sudden thought or craving, look at everything else that is happening around you.

[ereiam]

Wow - what an incredible accomplishment, though; especially achieving a place of comfort with your body. I'm curious (if not emotional), if the cravings are physiological somehow. My mom has strong and constant cravings and has a very hard time turning away goodies, but she's very comfortable in her skin...hmmmm.

I think the cravings are physiological. I don't think I am an emotional eater anymore. I was one when I was mindlessly stuffing with food. But over the past two years I have learned a lot about properly addressing those emotions.

I take a medication for depression that gives me a lot of cravings and it is almost always for carbs. Without the meds I am non-functional, so I guess I will just have to learn to work around the cravings. W30 compliance helps a lot, but the food addiction forum is helping me as well.

[heatherdarbs]

I think the cravings are physiological. I don't think I am an emotional eater anymore. I was one when I was mindlessly stuffing with food. But over the past two years I have learned a lot about properly addressing those emotions.

I take a medication for depression that gives me a lot of cravings and it is almost always for carbs. Without the meds I am non-functional, so I guess I will just have to learn to work around the cravings. W30 compliance helps a lot, but the food addiction forum is helping me as well.

Ah - I've researched antidepressants before and they certainly are related to "weight gain" (i.e. appetite). I had an episode, once upon a time, where I ran for miles and miles, but wouldn't feed myself. They tried to put me on meds, but not for depression, to kick up my appetite. For me, personally, I don't even take aspirin, so that option wasn't getting past me. Ultimately and gradually, I pulled myself out of that state of mind w/ some serious/daily/intense self-reflection…pretty much on an hourly basis. I'd inch forward and slide back a bit; so it took almost two years – I knew what was causing it, so I had my opponent right in front of me, at least. Anyhow, this has nothing to do with your post; sorry ~

With that said, I would relate the meds to at least contributing to this obsession; after all, the meds are intended to alter chemical reactions in your brain. I'm assuming you've tried other types of meds?

[ereiam]

Yes, I've tried lots of things, meds, natural remedies, light therapy, etc. etc. I was diagnosed in 2004 with bipolar disorder after being treated for typical depression for twenty years. My doc has had me try lots of combinations, but the one that works so well makes me hungry.

So... I can't stop taking this medication (my husband and doctor would stage an intervention). I think I just need to realize that the constant noise in my head about food and cravings is a whole lot more tolerable than the noise in my head was when I was eating everything in sight. I HATED the way I looked and felt and I will do what it takes to not go back there.

[Xandra]

One way I have distracted myself from what I am "missing" is by surrounding myself with an array of choices. I bought a pile of paleo cookbooks and haven't read half of them. I only ever Google a recipe with the word Paleo in front of it. I only visit this forum to discuss food (along with one other weight loss group who is curious about eating this way, because most of their ways aren't working).

In other words, my current food world is paleo and the vast array of choices it contains. There is no deprivation because there is so much more to learn all the time. It's like a junky who has to develop a new circle of friends in order to avoid relapse. I don't read recipes that are non-paleo because then it does get me thinking about foods that I don't want to be eating.

[heatherdarbs]

Yes, I've tried lots of things, meds, natural remedies, light therapy, etc. etc. I was diagnosed in 2004 with bipolar disorder after being treated for typical depression for twenty years. My doc has had me try lots of combinations, but the one that works so well makes me hungry.

So... I can't stop taking this medication (my husband and doctor would stage an intervention). I think I just need to realize that the constant noise in my head about food and cravings is a whole lot more tolerable than the noise in my head was when I was eating everything in sight. I HATED the way I looked and felt and I will do what it takes to not go back there.

Maybe this is just something you continue to tolerate; the lesser of the two “evilsâ€. If the more favorable and beneficial option is to continue meds that are accompanied by cravings, then possibly an approach to managing your reaction (mentally) to that chatter is more feasible to finding the reason for the chatter. If your body and physical health are non-issues, then seeking your mental balance in regards to the banter in your head may be a more realistic option.

[Flynn]

This is purely my story so take from it what you will

As an ex-binge eater, chronic dieter, and self proclaimed food addict, I learned that I always get cravings for things I deny myself...every deprivation leads to an equal and opposite craving (or binge in my case). I used to get undeniable cravings for sugar and baked goods, anything carby...I would eventually give in, eat waaaaay too much of ridiculous things, then feel guilty and like a failure. Now I know it's because I never ate enough food and enough carbs. Half a sweet potato a day doesn't cut it for me...I need more for my brain to function. When my brain can't function it obsesses about things, and it's very easy to obsess about something when you constantly think about some food rule or some food police or some automatic weight gain and consequence of eating some "forbidden" food. I learned from experience that it's ok to eat carbs, they are healthy, they feed the brain, they give you energy, they help with elimination, they have been around forever and they help to restore food sanity. I learned what healthy carbs are and which ones to eat. Over time, my cravings changed. I also learned that it's ok to eat enough calories...I can't run around on empty or I constantly think about food...in fact, now I know that if my mind starts wandering to thoughts of food that's a cue that I'm hungry. Yeah, I had to relearn what it is to be hungry because my food relationship was that F***ed up. When meals are not satisfying or leave me wanting something more, I eat more. I had to ditch my dreams of losing weight because that's what got all this started back when I was a kid. I had to heal my food relationship first, get my metabolism back in order and surprise surprise, when I did that, I lost weight without really trying. Walking around in a state of constant caloric deprivation made me crazy, and now that I am properly fed, I feel amazing.

I don't know why I wrote all that because it's not really any help, I just wanted you to know that you're not alone and that there is hope that you can feel sane around food and enjoy it Good luck!

[ereiam]

Flynn - Exactly the conclusion I came to this weekend. Thank you for stating it so well! I've been paleo since February, done two Whole30s. I keep narrowing down on what I can eat. First, the big switch to paleo. Then I got rid of most carbs like fruit and ate only vegetables. Then on my 1st W30 I got rid of nuts. The second time around I decided that I needed to get rid of any and all indulgences (like post W30 greek yogurt, which doesn't seem to have a negative effect on me). So no nuts, very little fruit, and no treats. On Friday, my husband was making pizza for the kids and all I could think about was carbs, carbs, carbs. (We usually have all paleo meals, but on Fridays, dh cooks and we have a movie night. I am usually fine with my own paleo meal.)

All that to say, I think I do have a physiological addiction to certain foods. And I do think that my medication makes me hungrier than normal. But I made a decision to add back in some treats in a limited way. I'm going to have my plain Greek yogurt when I want it as a snack. I'm going to have nuts once a week and I'm going to eat more fruit. Cutting back and back just made me feel more deprived and more obsessed about food. I love the W30 to get me on track, but I am learning slowly what is going to work for me long term. And like you said, losing weight is not really the point. The point for me is having sanity about food.

Tweak and adjust....

[heatherdarbs]

This is purely my story so take from it what you will

As an ex-binge eater, chronic dieter, and self proclaimed food addict, I learned that I always get cravings for things I deny myself...every deprivation leads to an equal and opposite craving (or binge in my case). I used to get undeniable cravings for sugar and baked goods, anything carby...I would eventually give in, eat waaaaay too much of ridiculous things, then feel guilty and like a failure. Now I know it's because I never ate enough food and enough carbs. Half a sweet potato a day doesn't cut it for me...I need more for my brain to function. When my brain can't function it obsesses about things, and it's very easy to obsess about something when you constantly think about some food rule or some food police or some automatic weight gain and consequence of eating some "forbidden" food. I learned from experience that it's ok to eat carbs, they are healthy, they feed the brain, they give you energy, they help with elimination, they have been around forever and they help to restore food sanity. I learned what healthy carbs are and which ones to eat. Over time, my cravings changed. I also learned that it's ok to eat enough calories...I can't run around on empty or I constantly think about food...in fact, now I know that if my mind starts wandering to thoughts of food that's a cue that I'm hungry. Yeah, I had to relearn what it is to be hungry because my food relationship was that F***ed up. When meals are not satisfying or leave me wanting something more, I eat more. I had to ditch my dreams of losing weight because that's what got all this started back when I was a kid. I had to heal my food relationship first, get my metabolism back in order and surprise surprise, when I did that, I lost weight without really trying. Walking around in a state of constant caloric deprivation made me crazy, and now that I am properly fed, I feel amazing.

I don't know why I wrote all that because it's not really any help, I just wanted you to know that you're not alone and that there is hope that you can feel sane around food and enjoy it Good luck!

Great message!

[Blue Sky]

Hey, I just want to say that Overeaters Anonymous has worked miracles for me. Or, rather, that because I've done so much intense work in the OA program that I'm experiencing a miracle. And this after trying a very, very, very long list of other options that didn't work and were horribly frustrating.

And now this diet is like a final piece of the puzzle falling into place, and I'm getting great results BUT ONLY when I do the stricter version of it that's meant for the auto-immune conditions. Otherwise, eggs, nuts, pork, whatever.... make my mood and energy levels crash.

[Maxine]

I was obese my whole life up until about three years ago when I was diagnosed first with a serious condition that was threatening my sight (due to being so overweight) and then with depression. I was a classic binge eater and a complete sugar addict. I cleaned up my diet and started exercising, and all that helps a lot but it was really the way I thought about food that made the difference.

For starters, I gave myself permission to eat whatever I wanted. But when I had a craving, I would tell myself, 'you know what? You CAN eat this if you really want it. Now, how much do you actually want it,and why?' I took a few seconds to think through the fact that this was just a craving and probably a response to stress or boredom or whatever, and acknowledge that I'd feel worse if I stuffed myself. I got to identify my personal triggers as any strong emotion (good, bad, boredom, stress, whatever) and learned how to react. But giving myself permission to eat it, instead of telling myself 'NO! YOU MUSTN'T EAT THAT!' was key for me.

I also used to tell myself I could use those few minutes when the craving was most intense to get healthier or get fatter - and made myself consciously choose between them.

I think the key thing for me was realising my impulses to eat (which would sometimes be so bad, I would cry and shake if I didn't feed myself) were actually cries from my body/mind to change the way I felt at that moment. I wanted to feel better, most of the time. Cravings get worse the more you think about them and the longer you spend turning them over in your head, so try letting yourself know it's OK if you want to eat that food, and you can really eat it if you want - but make a conscious choice and tell yourself firmly that you're making the decision to eat it or not. I hope this helps

PS, after I dropped 55kgs and got super fit and healthy and became an athlete, I got hit with a whole load of life stress all at once within a few weeks and reverted to binge eating to deal with the stress. I've spent 18 months letting my compulsive eating and my binge eating get worse and worse and I've put back every single one of those 55kgs. Now I have to start over. It would really have been easier if I hadn't let it get so far. I wish I'd knocked it on the head last year when I'd only gained 10kgs.