My stomach has never recovered

[Guest]

Dear Whole30 peeps,

 

My stomach has never recovered.  I did my first Whole30 in Feb/March of this year.  Around Day 20, I felt a bit stomach flu-ish, as did my husband.  About 90% of the time since then, I have had abdominal bloating, occasionally with the sensation of rocks in my stomach, and it usually happens after lunch and dinner.

 

Other things to know:

I don't have a gallbladder and I avoid animal fats.  Fat from pastured meat does not seem to bother me.

I have type 2 diabetes and take starch/sugar intake pretty seriously, although I eat plenty to sustain my energy level.  My sugars have been perfect.

I have a latex allergy and I think I may be sensitive to coconut.

I have no known autoimmune problems.

I have seen GI, family practitioner, women's health, and psych in this time.

 

Instructions from GI:

Take magnesium (my dose has increased to a medically induced state of diarrhea that I am expected to maintain into the future).  Cook all foods.  No dairy. No carbonated beverages.  Consider low FODMAPs.  Provided Rx probiotics upon request.

 

Tips from here in the forum:

Magnesium. Enzymes. Probiotics. Cooked foods. Low FODMAPs. Ginger.

 

In between Whole30s, I cooked only W30 foods and we ate occasional SAD meals at restaurants and with family (who live 10 hours away, which made it worth it).  I have had one or two SAD meals that did not cause bloating while some did. 

 

The enzymes and probiotics never seemed to help.  I took an entire bottle of NOW Superfoods and most of a bottle of 365, which are not W30 compliant.  I took most of the bottle of the doctor's probiotics.  I also drink kombucha on occasion, but am wondering if it bothers me as it is raw and bubbly and I did have some this week.  I like it.  I stopped the enzymes and probiotics around the beginning of my current W30 and didn't notice a difference.

 

I added back a few raw foods about two weeks ago and started to eat any W30 foods that looked good to me (we ate 22 veggies off of the shopping list in our second week).  About 10 days ago, I noticed zero bloating.  Tummy looked flat, everything seemed thinner, pants fit better.  I have been back on cooked foods this week, which is hard with 90 to 100 degree temps, but I do want to feel better. 

 

Earlier this week, the distended tummy returned with a vengeance. While it used to last an hour or two, it now lasts close to my next meal.  Last night, I was still in discomfort when I went to bed.  Lying on my back is often the only answer.  I have returned to 100% cooked foods this week and low FODMAPs for the last two days.

 

Learning to live Whole30 has sort of consumed me and I am constantly trying to prepare extra food, source local meat, or clean the kitchen.  I really want this to become more natural.  But, I never had these problems before.  Sadly, I seem to have them no matter what I am eating now and other parts of me feel great eating this way.  I am on day 19 of this Whole30.  Last night I didn't want to eat at all because I want the bloating to go away.  I am at a loss.

 

Foods:

Eggs, sweet potato, red pepper, zucchini, kale, ground beef, grapefruit

Chicken zoodle soup with carrots and homemade bone broth, cantaloupe

Pastured pork shoulder roast, puree of rutabaga, carrot, parsnip, and sweet potato, green beans (ate about ½ of a meal)

When fat is not listed, every little bit was cooked in coconut oil or some was added.  I also supplement meals with olives, or by adding a handful of nuts about once a week.

 

If anyone has any ideas or has overcome this, I would love to hear from you.

[Tom Denham]

You said you added back some raw foods and then noticed the bloating was gone. However, you went back to cooking because everyone advised cooking to make things easier for your stomach... I wonder if you are truly sensitive to coconut oil and it is the source of irritation. How about trying another cooking fat for a while - ghee, beef tallow, duck fat, lard, even olive oil. (We don't recommend cooking with olive oil, but you might try it for a few weeks as an easy way to avoid coconut oil).

 

Overall, your situation is mysterious to me. I like the fact that you found a GI doctor who seems to really be in the ball game. You might also want to try a naturopath or a consult with Dallas Hartwig.

[Guest]

Thanks, Tom.  I may look for some pastured animal fats.  I know there is good butter out there in Summer so I might be able to make clarified butter.  I tried once and the pan boiled over.  Adventures of a wannabe cave girl.

 

I'm still so very curious why Meal one isn't usually a problem with crispy kale dripping in fat and a hash of sorts cooked in it.  I don't know how long to expect to recover from a sensitivity, but I will focus next on trying to isolate cooking fats and see if I notice a change.  Today may be a bone broth day.

 

Oh, and my coconut oil is refined and organic.

[holly1234]

Wow!  Your story is the same as mine with one exception....I have a gall bladder.  I have discovered I'm sensitive to coconut, but I was told the oil should still be okay.  I was diagnosed with IBS years ago, and am just now learning about a low FODMAP eating style.  If I eat something that "doesn't agree with me," I almost immediately get a distended belly with serious pain and lying down is the only thing that helps.  My family jokes about my "alien baby" that shows up once in a while...I even have special stretchy pants I have to wear when this happens.  I also have chronic constipation and have to take a large amount of magnesium nightly.  I do notice a difference with digestive enzymes, but not so much with a probiotic.  

 

I am interested in seeing what suggestions people may have for you!  Sorry I couldn't offer any help

[pjena]

If meal 1 doesn't bother you, I'd try eating that for all three meals one day to see what happens.  Just to see if it's the foods in M1 that don't bother you or somehow the time of day.  Good luck!

[Guest]

If meal 1 doesn't bother you, I'd try eating that for all three meals one day to see what happens.  Just to see if it's the foods in M1 that don't bother you or somehow the time of day.  Good luck!

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Thanks, this is an interesting theory.  Meal one is usually any other meal that is stretched with egg and with extra veggies, usually sweet potato, mushroom, and kale.  Gotta pick up more of all three today. although I kicked mushroom off of the plate as a FODMAP.  I feel as though the goal is going to be extreme elimination until I feel some improvement, followed by very gradual reintros.

 

Gonna look into the feasibility of a consult with Dallas.

[jillian]

I had lots of digestion issues during my first Whole30 - and I'm pretty sure it was from coconut oil and too much avocado. Now I cook everything in rendered chicken or pork fat, organic refined canola oil (on occasion) and ghee. My stomach feels much better. I tend to only get bloated if I go overboard on nuts.

 

Bacon grease is my friend...

[Bet]

Also a IBS sufferer. It could be the coconut oil, since you don't have a gall bladder. I would also eliminate the red pepper, especially if it was raw. You say you don't have an AI disease, but type 2 diabetes can be considered that, and also you could have IBS which is AI related. Have you considered doing the AI protocol? You'd have to give up eggs, nightshades (peppers, tomatoes, eggplant) and nuts. Also while zuchinni isn't a FODMAP, I have found that eating it with the skin can cause diarrhea. Last time I had one, I peeled it before I grilled it and had no problems.

 

I would also stick to a very low FODMAP diet and maybe cut back on the Magnesium. Also I take Magnesium Glycinate. Other forms can irritate the bowl and cause diarrhea.

[Guest]

I had lots of digestion issues during my first Whole30 - and I'm pretty sure it was from coconut oil and too much avocado. Now I cook everything in rendered chicken or pork fat, organic refined canola oil (on occasion) and ghee. My stomach feels much better. I tend to only get bloated if I go overboard on nuts.

 

Bacon grease is my friend...

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Because I have no gallbladder, I am quite terrified of other fats.  I have been eating fattier cuts of meat now that I have found better sources.  At the beginning of my Whole30, I made a yummy frittata with salmon in it and became very ill.  I connected with some other no-gallbladder people here and have stuck with coconut oil as a result.  I'm going to switch to steaming and adding olive oil for a bit to see if things calm down.  We've invested a lot in CSA's and a US Wellness and an Amazon order this month, so ordering more fat will be an added expense that could go towards a consult.

 

Also a IBS sufferer. It could be the coconut oil, since you don't have a gall bladder. I would also eliminate the red pepper, especially if it was raw. You say you don't have an AI disease, but type 2 diabetes can be considered that, and also you could have IBS which is AI related. Have you considered doing the AI protocol? You'd have to give up eggs, nightshades (peppers, tomatoes, eggplant) and nuts. Also while zuchinni isn't a FODMAP, I have found that eating it with the skin can cause diarrhea. Last time I had one, I peeled it before I grilled it and had no problems.

 

I would also stick to a very low FODMAP diet and maybe cut back on the Magnesium. Also I take Magnesium Glycinate. Other forms can irritate the bowl and cause diarrhea.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I have cooked all of my foods this week, so no raw peppers.  My doctors have suggested that I do not have an AIP and do not need the AIP protocol.  My doctor also wants me on the extra magnesium citrate specifically to induce diarrhea. 

 

Weird that none of this existed pre-W30.  Is that common?  I don't feel better on low FODMAPs.  Anyone doing them know how long that might take?  I am willing to try things to feel better, but I feel as though I am chasing my tail.

[Bet]

I don't want to contradict a doctor, but why does he want you to have diarrhea? Is it because you don't have a gall bladder? I would that that would really screw up your digestive system and cause the other problems you are having. And doing the AIP wouldn't do any harm. I've already found that I shouldn't be eating eggs, or not that many eggs.

[jillian]

I'll add that I have had gallbladder issues/pain (and for whatever reason they really flare up with coconut oil -strange, right?) - but I still have my gallbladder so this certainly makes a difference in my experience. Curious ... have you ever tried an occasional shot of apple cider vinegar? Sounds like you have a lot to figure out - and a shot of acv won't be a "cure-all" for you -  but just wanted to share a few tidbits that may be helpful...

[Guest]

I'm going to go coconut oil free for a while.  Sad that my freezer is finally getting stocked, but pretty much everything in it has coconut oil.  Even worse is that my crock pot was recalled and will not be back any time soon..  Looks like  I will have to cook in olive or go with steaming and baking like I did when I was SAD with olives on the side of my meals.

 

Am quite curious about the notion that I need AIP.  It would be easier than low FODMAP (especially for my blood sugars), but less tasty and more expensive  I have NEVER had bloating prior to my Whole30 in March.  Could I have had IBS or an IBD without any symptoms at all and without knowing it?

 

I recently encouraged some friends to try W30 with me and one said that she knew someone who tried and can no longer tolerate most foods.  I have heard echoes of similar stories.  I certainly hope that this is not happening to very many folks and that the coconut sensitivity tip is the answer.

 

I'll report back once I've had time to eliminate coconut.

[Physibeth]

Have you tried supplementing with Ox Biles or HCL to aid in the digestion of animal fats? Have you read this article before? http://balancedbites.com/2012/12/faqs-how-can-i-eat-paleo-without-a-gallbladder.html

[Guest]

As stated in my original post, I did supplement with enzymes.  Maybe the fact that I am not cooking with animal fats is the reason I did not notice any improvement.  After becoming very ill from a salmon frittata and making the gallbladder connection and learning from a gallbladder thread here, I stuck with coconut oil.  I have really not had much fat at all since age 10, so this has been interesting, and occasionally fun.

 

There is a chance you linked that article in one of my previous threads. I have seen it.

 

At a loss, but hopeful with the current coconut theory.

 

I didn't come here to attempt to resolve digestive issues when I came back in February.  Now, I feel I have nowhere else to turn.  I don't even know what I can eat to sustain myself for a bit while my tummy heals (while also feeding my husband who is starting to doubt W30).  (Given that I am home sick and he is supporting us financially, cooking is really the very least I can do.)  If the coconut theory fails, I will try to scrimp and schedule a consult.  Best to try everything I can before I make that contact.

[Guest]

(Not eating with meals seemed to be the one thing that helped and I probably picked it up from that article.)

[Melissa Urban]

Have you considered doing a stool culture with your doc? I'd be interested to see what flora you've got going on, and whether you have any overgrowth, infections, or parasites. 

 

Also, you don't have to have an autoimmune condition to be sensitive to foods like nuts/seeds, eggs, or nightshades. Dallas gets these same gastric symptoms with tomatoes, and he's as healthy as a horse - it's just a sensitivity. Perhaps consider keeping a food diary for a week, and limiting your selection of foods to those on an AIP diet (just for a week) to see if that helps. Nuts and seeds, coconut, and nightshades (specifically tomatoes) are likely culprits in these scenarios - I'd be likely to suggest the coconut, given your story and history. Coconut oil is great for those with gallbladder issues (as it doesn't require bile to digest), but not if you're sensitive.

 

Best,

Melissa

[Guest]

OK, I am due for an A1c and will ask for a stool culture.  I often assume that doctors will make the correct choices based on my symptoms, but it sounds as though I need to be an advocate for myself.  (I try not to step on toes by having spent too much time on the internet, which I have always done.)

 

Starting Wednesday, I will begin AIP with no coconut and no avocado.  I will also cook everything at first - and will need fresh ingredients that don't already have non-AIP ingredients in them.  (Those already cooked foods will serve my uber-supportive husband well.)  If things go well, raw foods and avocado will be added back first.  I hope to have the culture results back by the time I have completed 7 days.

 

Shopping tomorrow.  I will also start a log and will link it here.  I think Holly1234 will be my partner in crime for part of it.  I will be starting with this resource: http://autoimmune-paleo.com/?p=1254

 

Anyone with AIP experience who would like to share tips, please feel free.

[Susan W]

Nico, I just stopped by to say I am so sorry for your tummy troubles. Nadia and several others did AIP for ten days. I think Beets was also a part of that. I know others have done it for much longer, but I don't remember who. Maybe if you start a thread with AIP in the title, it will catch the eye of other AIPers. Feel better!!

[Guest]

Thanks, Susan.  You have always been so much help.  I know Moluv was also in on it and a friend, suth_n_belle did hers.  I searched for them, but my trusty search tool did not find them - maybe because logs are protected - although I found Moluv's AIP curry.  Maybe a few PM's will help me find them before I go shopping.

[holly1234]

Thank you for the link, Nico!  I'll be starting my 7-day trial on Monday.  What will I put in my coffee if I can't have coconut milk???

[Renee Lee]

Good luck, Nico! I came in here to echo the AIP suggestion. Eggs, nightshades and nuts are common irritants for folks, even without an existing autoimmune condition.

 

After you're done with the coconut oil trial, I'd try pulling out some of the AIP food triggers like M suggested. Good luck!

[Guest]

<url=http://forum.whole9life.com/topic/12093-holly-and-nico-take-on-the-aip-for-7-days/>Here </url>

[Guest]

Here is the log for our adventure.  Please visit us often.

[Guest]

Have you considered doing a stool culture with your doc? I'd be interested to see what flora you've got going on, and whether you have any overgrowth, infections, or parasites. 

 

 

Best,

Melissa

 

Good call, Melissa!  The doctor's office just called and I have a colon infection.  I asked for a copy of the labs to find out exactly what they found.  Sadly, he said antibiotics.  I can pick up the lab results when I pick up the antibiotics on my way to buying a bunch of grassfed meat to stuff in my new chest freezer.

 

Today is day 7 of my AIP trial.  I wonder what will happen next.  Lots of probiotics and bone broth in my future (yay, soup in Summer).  And, maybe some HCL since I peed pink for three days after the beet juice test. 

 

I'll post in my log and update it post-antibiotics.