Coffee

[Kevin M.]

I just want a little clarification, why is coffee allowed? For a program that's dedicated to healthy choices and "resetting" your nutritional clock etc. Why would a narcotic like caffeine be allowed? It just doesn't make sense. Can someone explain this to me please?

[kirkor]

*stimulant

[kirkor]

Real answer: http://whole9life.com/2011/01/the-coffee-manifesto/

[Kevin M.]

Hey thanks for the replies, and yes coffee is a stimulant (opposite of narcotic), but I read that article before this post and it doesn't say anything really, it lists the negative and positive from caffeine, but why is caffeine something that can be brushed aside and people can say eh, its ok to have, but a peanut will reset you to day 1?  I smell something fishy.

[kirkor]

Whole30 is a made-up program. If the linked article isn't enough, the only other answer is "because Melissa & Dallas said so" (honestly, not being snarky with this comment).

There are other programs that allow dairy, and the proponents of those programs believe pretty strongly in their rationales.

I'm sure there are pro-peanut programs as well, and the people that follow those are equally strident.

If you're not convinced that coffee is "less bad" than peanuts, that's cool, plenty of water and tea to drink.

[Kevin M.]

Haha, I tend to agree with you and just thought it was weird, not craving a peanut at the moment, but it struck me as odd that a lentil snuck into your food would destroy everything, but wiring the brain with caffeine was ok.  

[MeadowLily]

The association between coffee and diabetes isn’t new—we’ve covered it before in 12 Ways To Never Get Diabetes—but research presented at the 7th World Congress on Prevention of Diabetes and its Complications, held in Spain, offers further evidence that coffee can curb your risk of the disease.  

“Drinking up to 3 cups of coffee daily helps lower the risk of type 2 diabetes because of the combination of chemicals contained in coffee beans that are involved in metabolism,” Jaakko Tuomilehto, MD, PhD, and co-director of the Congress, says in a press release. One such chemical, chlorogenic acid, may actually help lower blood glucose levels.

Of course, these latest findings still fall short of establishing a casual relationship between java and diabetes. But this isn't the only potential health benefit linked to a cup of joe. We've got a few extra reasons for you to sip up: 

Coffee boosts your memory Researchers at the University of South Florida found that caffeinated coffee increases the levels of a hormone that helps produce new neurons, which may reduce your risk of Alzheimer's. (Combine coffee with these Smart New Strategies To Ward Off Dementia.)

A cup of java promotes heart health A study published in Circulation: Heart Failure found that moderate coffee consumption—approximately two 8-ounce cups a day—was associated with a lower risk of heart failure. (Also nosh on these 9 Superfoods For Your Heart for even more ticker protection.)

The brew reduces your risk of skin cancer Caffeinated coffee can reduce your risk of basal cell carcinoma, the most common type of skin cancer, according to a study published in Cancer Research. Decaf, on the other hand, didn’t appear to have any effect. 

[Tom Denham]

The Whole30 is designed to get people to actually do it. Eliminating coffee would mean that 1000s of people would not consider the program. That would be a shame considering that most of those 1000s actually get a huge benefit, even with coffee. 

[Kevin M.]

To MeadowLily, while your post was informative (and probably not true), it has no bearing on the Whole 30 Program. What would eliminating coffee for a 30 day program have to do with the extremely long term benefits of coffee?  I'm not arguing that coffee is good or bad by the way, it's just an inconsistency in the philosophy of this program.

 

To Tom,  that seems like a cop out, because people love so many things, like cheese, for example.  If items can be so arbitrarily added and subtracted, why is the program so stringent?

 

I am not complaining about the program, I think it sends a positive message about food and nutrition.

[kirkor]

You're asking why coffee is allowed, MeadowLily was pointing out some possible long-term benefits to coffee as an answer to your question; i.e. the potential benefits outweigh the potential risks.

[Kevin M.]

so 30 days without coffee will bring cancer and diabetes?

[Guest Andria]

so 30 days without coffee will bring cancer and diabetes?

That is a bit of a short sighted answer. I think what Meadowlily is trying to point out, and Kirkor is clarifying, is that if coffee can have long term benefits why the need to cut it out for 30 days?

[Kevin M.]

There are many, many foods that are healthy both in the short and long term for you that Whole 30 prohibits: chickpeas, lentils, any legume, all of these have proven health benefits, vitamins and minerals.  None of these have compounds in them that are a psychoactive like caffeine, caffeine is in the same category (CNS Stimulant) as cocaine, mdma, methamphetamine, etc.

 

Why cut it out for 30 days: The reason is simple, the Whole 30 is about removing toxins from the body found in processed foods, it is also about understanding the way your body uses food as an energy source and making good choices, it is about retraining the body to control cravings for sugar and other quick, unhealthy forms of energy.

 

Andria, in fact, if you read the Coffee article on this very website, it recommends the removal of caffeine of all types for a 30 day period every so often.  Caffeiene has been shown to cause many negative long term effects. 

[MeadowLily]

Mayo Clinic Health Letter   

Is coffee good or bad for me?

Donald Hensrud, M.D.

 

Coffee has a long history of being blamed for many ills — from stunting your growth to claims that it causes heart disease and cancer. But recent research indicates that coffee may not be so bad after all. So which is it — good or bad? The best answer may be that for most people the health benefits outweigh the risks.

Recent studies have generally found no connection between coffee and an increased risk of cancer or heart disease. In fact, most studies find an association between coffee consumption and decreased overall mortality and possibly cardiovascular mortality, although this may not be true in younger people who drink large amounts of coffee.

Why the apparent reversal in the thinking about coffee? Earlier studies didn't always take into account that known high-risk behaviors, such as smoking and physical inactivity, tended to be more common among heavy coffee drinkers at that time.

Studies have shown that coffee may have health benefits, including protecting against Parkinson's disease, type 2 diabetes and liver disease, including liver cancer. It also appears to improve cognitive function and decrease the risk of depression.

[kirkor]

Kevin it kinda seems like you're tilting at the coffee windmill here.

If you think the Whole30 isn't a good fit for you because it includes coffee over legumes, I mean, cool, no need to participate, right?

[Kevin M.]

Cool, exactly what i was saying kirkor, you got it, one difference in viewpoint and that's it, you think I shouldn't ask questions or participate.  The real answer I'm getting is because people are unwilling to give up caffeine because they can't function without it, using it like a crutch to get energy instead of using sugar.

 

If you don't think I make any sense thats cool too.

[Guest Andria]

The real answer you want would come from the Whole9 founders (Hint:maybe send them an email if you *really* want an answer and not a debate).  What happens here is going to be twisted into a debate.  No one here had a hand in formulating this program.  I don't think Kirkor is dismissing you because you have a different viewpoint.  He is saying that this program is made-up and if it speaks to you, do the program.  If you don't agree with the program don't do it.  Some people won't do the program because they believe strongly, for instance, that dairy is healthy; as strongly as you believe caffeine is unhealthy.

[jent103]

The coffee manifesto linked above is as close to an official answer as any forum posters have.

 

To address one of your concerns, the reason that eating some things (including peanuts) is grounds for a restart is that those things can affect your gut even in tiny amounts, and the idea is to get a completely clean slate so that you can see how Food X affects you personally.

 

There are lots of things that are allowed on a Whole30 which, in large quantities, aren't the best choices: eating a lot of nuts messes with many people's digestion; eating a lot of fruit by itself may spike your blood sugar and/or keep you craving sweets; drinking six cups of coffee a day will mess with your sleep (and, as you'll find in multiple places on the Whole9 materials, is definitely discouraged). But a sprinkle of pecans on a salad, or a side of apples with a pork chop, or a cup or two of black coffee once or twice a week, are all completely different stories. Context is key.

 

But certainly no one is forcing anyone to have coffee on a Whole30, and if you'd like to do the program without, awesome.

[Guest Andria]

^ This

[ultrarunnergirl]

I love the Coffee Manifesto and the info in it. After all, a big part of The Whole 30 Program includes teaching you "to fish."

 

Thus the "whole30" and not the "whole365". Once you have reintro'd things and seen for yourself how YOU react to them, you take that info and apply it to your life. For many, it's worth indulging on occasion. For some, maybe never.

 

You can really go down a rabbit hole straight toward an eating disorder if you try to eat only things that have absolutely zero possible bad impacts. You can worry yourself about oxalates in spinach, phytates in nuts and seeds, solanine in potatoes, fructose in any fruit ...

 

I know a lot of people who did eliminate caffeine during their whole30. I know people who did/did not choose to apply the "get enough sleep" suggestion. I know people who did/didn't choose to implement the "get a little exercise" suggestion. If you think coffee/caffeine is something that you should get out of your body to do a complete superclean Whole30 for you, then do it.

[MeadowLily]

It's also understood and appreciated that the Hartwigs have said you don't have to eat any food that's in conflict with religious beliefs either.

[cinagain]

It's my (limited) understanding that the major difference between coffee and peanuts would be the allergy risk.  Very few people are allergic to caffeine...but peanuts are highly allergic to many people.  So if you're looking to remove those items that *might* be causing allergic reactions/gut issues, it makes sense to remove those items with a higher incidence of problems.

 

That's why legumes are limited...and dairy...NOT because they have no nutritional value, but because the idea of Whole30 is to give your body time to reset WITHOUT possible irritants.  That's also why there's a re-introduction period...so if dairy doesn't cause any issues, eat dairy.  If legumes don't cause you bloating or other gastro issues, eat legumes.

It's about finding what works for or against YOU.  It's about recognizing that foods either make you healthier or Unhealthier. If you understand/agree with that basic premise of Whole30 (temporarily removing those foods that have a higher incidence of causing problems, whether preservatives, allergens, SWYPO foods, etc), then you shouldn't really have trouble with the caffeine vs peanuts idea.  Caffeine, in moderation, is NOT unhealthy. Peanuts, if you have even a mild allergy to them, ARE.

 

If you don't agree with the concept, don't do the program. Pretty simple, really.

[Darbbb]

It's like arguing why there are three strikes in baseball....why not two?  Why not five?  As someone pointed out, this program was created, invented, by two people using their best judgement about what works and what doesn't.  If you don't want to drink coffee, then don't drink it.  

[Susanrenee]

It's not quite the same about arguing about rules in a baseball game We're talking about food and health here

 

Long before I'd heard of Whole30,  I did an exclusion diet under the direction of a dietician to see if I could rid myself of headaches. One of the exclusions was caffeine. I was a coffee-every-day person, and really NEEDED a cup of coffee to get me through the morning. It was tough giving it up, but once I did, my health was much better for it. Something Tom said earlier resonated with me - if giving up coffee was a necessary of this, then many many people wouldn't do it, and the goal is to reach as many people as possible.  But isn't it a pity folk would 'give up' something which isn't necessarily good for their health....? So whilst I can see reasons for it being in the programme, I also understand why it might be confusing.

[Sleeve]

Between the book and moderator comments, I took changing my use of coffee as an opt-in and I did it.  I was a pot a day, and the first cup within as few seconds of waking up as technically possible.  Along with other life long modifications from W30, I now wake to three glasses of water and usually get my one cup of coffee in by around 11am.  I skip it if it's later since I agree that midday is the latest you can take coffee without sleep impact.

 

When I opted in, I baby stepped because I was willing to eliminate the four targets of W30, then as I drank black coffee it became less interesting but still something I like for the taste.

 

I'm one of those people who prove Tom's comment:  if I had to eliminate or limit coffee up front, this way of life may not have rescued me from my thoughts about going the juicing route I was first considering when I got my nutritional s#!t together.  I wouldn't have gained as substantial an improvement in my overall health.  Grain was a hike for me and persists as a social obstacle, coffee would have been "these people are crazy."

 

I have the same feelings about monosodium glutamate as some of us feel about coffee.  At least W30 takes a stand on that neurotoxin and all its forms while several paleo blogs endorse protein isolates.  The hypothalamus is the adrenal CEO and by exciting its cells to death, you affect its ability to read signals and control the pituitary and thyroid.  Yet you'll see the most glycogenic among us shoveling factory dust out of Bisphenol A megatubs and cooking that little cashew in their brain.