Ketosis

[jocko]

I'm trying to understand this program. I can't find any clear definition on how much or little I can eat. Is Whole30 like the Adkins in that your body goes into Ketosis? I'm in day 12 and still waiting for that burst of energy, still sick to my stomach, constipated and feel blotted. I have already posted meals and doing OK. I have not cheated. Any thoughts on the ketosis thing? Is Ketosis a bad word?

[ShannonM816]

The meal template outlines how much you can eat at each meal. It's a range, and it's based on the size of your hand so you can personalize it to yourself. You eat until you're satisfied, focus on getting plenty of vegetables, and play with the amounts of protein and fat (eating at least the minimum amount of each listed in the template) until you stay satisfied 4-5 hours between meals.

 

Some people do go into ketosis, some accidentally, some on purpose. There's no particular reason you need to. For most people, if they eat a fist-sized serving of starchy vegetable each day (which is recommended because most people seem to feel better when they have some), and occasionally have some fruit, that will be enough to keep them out of ketosis. 

 

The Atkins diet, at least as most people think of it, focused on lots of protein and not a lot of vegetables, and definitely not much fruit. I understand it got a bad rap, because that's not necessarily what the creator of it had in mind back when he created it, but it is how most people came to view back in the 90's when it became very popular (I remember reading about it, thinking, so I can have all the bacon I want, as long as I don't have toast?!? That's the kind of reputation it got in the media.) Whole30 focuses on having reasonable amounts of protein and fat and lots of vegetables. 

[Carlaccini]

Hi Jocko,

 

Actually the template is very clear - use your own palm (height, length, and depth of your palm), and your own thumb as measurement. 

 

So protein should be 1 - 2 palm sized protein with every meal.  I know sometimes this can be hard to gauge if you are working with chili or stew.  My advise there is to start with an amount - maybe 1.5 to 2 cups worth?  And if you are still hungry afterwards - eat some more.  Your aim is to be pleasantly full but not stuffed.

 

Veggies - 1 - 3 cups worth of veggies.  Aim for 3 cups or 1/2 to 3/4 of your plate full with veggies.  Also aim for eating 1 fist sized portion of starchy veg a day - so something like a potato or a sweet potato.

 

Fat - this is where your thumb comes in.  when dealing with cooking fat go with this.  For something like olives it's a handful. Your hand.  Not anybody else's. For avocado - start with half - if you need more - it's completely okay to eat the whole thing.  For coconut milk - 1/4 cup is about a serving of fat. 

 

Fruit - again fist sized. Your fist.  

[ultrarunnergirl]

Jocko,

  I couldn't find where you had posted meals. Give us a link or a few days worth of all you have eaten, including portions, to analyze and we might be able to help further.

 

Not everyone gets a noticeable burst of energy. You might, and it might be just around the corner. Keep on keeping on!

[jocko]

Thanks, sorry, I spelled Ketosis wrong. I keep reading this is a 30 day plan, so I will give it 30 days but I don't think much of a plan that has had so many ill effects on me. I hope at the end of this I can say I am wrong and be in better health and a bit thinner. Thanks for all of the help.

[ladyshanny]

Hey Jocko,

 

Four or five days ago you and I chatted about how to formulate your meals and the fact that you were not eating enough.  http://forum.whole9life.com/topic/29544-energy-level-100/#entry316144

 

Did you bump up your portions in any significant way?  The issues you are complaining of are very possibly due to not eating enough.

[jocko]

Yes, but I feel more bloated than ever. Although I love veggies I can't chock down the amount this plan calls for, especially at breakfast. I'm EXTREMELY FRUSTRATED. I'm plan on finishing the whole30 but if something drastic doesn't happen I'll have a whole30 book for sale cheap 8/11/2015. This program is a very time consuming animal. I would have more time to deal with it if I didn't work a full time job.

[jmcbn]

Can you post another few days worth of your food intake just to see what tweaks you've made and if you're eating anything specific that could be triggering the bloating?

Off the top of my head things that can cause bloating (which often comes hand in hand with lethargy) are:

Ice cold water - try to stick to room temperature or your body will have to work at warming it up as it goes down.
Sparkling water

Nuts & nut butters

Raw veggies

Cruciferous veggies

Raw cruciferous veggies - double whammy   
Peppers

As for the program being time consuming it's only as time consuming as you make it - are you taking a few hours to batch cook so as you have a few prepped sources of protein & veggies on hand to throw a variety of meals together? This cuts out the need to be cooking every day... 

[jocko]

Sat.   I just ate one meal: 2 hamburgers, spinach salad w/mushrooms, onions, olives with balsamic vinegar. 1 avocado & an apple

Sun.  I had 2 meals Sunday. roast pork, sauerkraut hand full of almonds.  dinner: eggs with spinach, cilantro & onions.

Mon. More eggs with spinach, cilantro & onions. Lunch: roast pork with a can of green beans. Dinner MORE eggs with spinach.

 

I am a large guy, (over 300lbs),  but I can't eat the amount of food this program seems to require, Is it not good enough to eat the type of food but in smaller portions? I'm in day 16 still NO ENERGY, sick stomach and my pants have become tighter. I fell asleep again at my desk yesterday.

I will make it to the end and still hopeful for the results this program almost promises.

[GFChris]

Sat and Sun you didn't eat enough food. Monday looked much better, although it's unclear what fats you had at your meals.

When you don't eat enough, your body thinks it's in starvation mode and will hold onto every ounce it can.  This is likely the major reason you're tired.

Also, be sure you're drinking enough water: at least 150 ounces per day (we recommend 1/2 an ounce of water per pound of body weight, daily).
 

Aim to follow the best practices of the program: 3 meals every  day, 1st meal within an hour of waking. This furnishes optimal hormonal balance, which is what ends up helping people lose weight. Each meal with 1-2 palms of protein, 1-3 cups of veggies and the appropriate amount of compliant fat per meal. Build meals that satiate you for 4-5 hours.  If you have trouble getting to those recommended portions, work your way around your plate, wrap up the rest, and have the leftovers at a snack or other later meal. 

Try rotating in carb-dense vegetables like sweet potatoes, potatoes, winter squash, beets, jicama, plantains, rutabaga and parsnips for both energy and satiation. (spinach isn't very satiating)

You might try dropping the nuts and raw veggies for a bit and see if that reduces your bloat, as these items can cause digestive distress for some.



 

[jmcbn]

I know you think that you are eating a lot, but really you are not eating enough. Have you come from a background of calorie restriction?

What I'd suggest is preparing a template meal - 1-2 palm sized pieces of protein, 1-3 cups of veggies, and 1-2 thumb sized pieces of fat, eating as much of it as you can (trying to eat equal quantities of each macro-nutrient), then wrap up the remainder to eat as soon as you feel able. The amount you can eat will increase over time.

I don't see any starchy veg listed which could account for your lack of energy - you should be including at least a fist sized serving per day. Also there is no mention of water intake - at 300lbs you should be drinking at least 150 ounces of water per day.

 

Are the onions raw? If so replace them with cooked onion, or a different vegetable, and replace some of the spinach with hardier (cooked) veg which is easier to digest. Drop the nuts completely until your bloating settles.

It could be the raw veg, it could be the onions, it could be the nuts - but it could also be that you're simply not eating enough...

 

 

 

ETA: Too busy typing to see that Chris had already replied!

[kirkor]

How did you eat before embarking on a Whole30? You mention having trouble eating the amount of food required, but with W30's emphasis on healthy fats and a reduction of processed carbs, the food you eat during these 30 days should be *more* nutrient dense than foods on the "Standard American Diet" ... in other words, less volume, more food value. Christ & j already mentioned the potential issues with nuts, so that's definitely something to look at, but ya, there's a disconnect here somewhere.

[jocko]

I don't know if this is the right place for this but I thought I would post here rather than starting a new one.

Since I have been doing Whole30 I have been doing a lot of reading about LC plans. LCHF, (low carb high fat), diets keep coming up. It seems Whole30 is low carb low fat. The LCHF is sounding better & better to me, can anyone speak to why the Whole30 is a better way to go than the LCHF?
Just looking for another opinion.

[alexasaurusrex]

I don't know if this is the right place for this but I thought I would post here rather than starting a new one.

Since I have been doing Whole30 I have been doing a lot of reading about LC plans. LCHF, (low carb high fat), diets keep coming up. It seems Whole30 is low carb low fat. The LCHF is sounding better & better to me, can anyone speak to why the Whole30 is a better way to go than the LCHF?

Just looking for another opinion.

 

The Whole 30 is moderate fat/carb/protein and as someone who has tried to get into ketosis through a LCHF diet, it sucks. Whole 30 and moderate everything feels so much better. And the Whole 30 is all about healing the damage we've done to our bodies with food, weightloss is just a good side effect. I would try doing a Whole 30 perfectly, upping your food like Chris and jmcbn said and cutting out the raw veggies - roast them, they taste so much better and dont hurt your tummy - and you'll see how you do. I know for me, I was horribly sick the first two weeks and only since yesterday have been feeling great. Its worth it to stick to the template. Dont be afraid of fats and one meal with starchy veg you'll feel better.  

 

Good luck!

[jmcbn]

Whole30 is neither low carb, nor low fat.

All of the vegetables that you eat, particularly the starchy ones, are fairly high in carbohydrates - as are fruits if you choose to eat them.

As for fat, you are recommended to eat fat at every meal - fatty cuts of meat, mayo, olives, all kinds of oils, nuts, coconut milk etc.

I think you are confusing carbs with grain, and perhaps confusing your good & bad fats.

I should add also that Whole30 is not a diet, but an elimination programme to reduce gut inflammation by removing trigger foods, and to improve overall health.



 

[jocko]

We are allowed fats so why can't I have heavy cream in my coffee. By the way I have almost completely stopped drinking coffee, black coffee really sucks. Also for the passed couple days I have cut back on the amount of food but keeping the type of food and I am a lot less blotted.

Thanks for the continued conversation

[jmcbn]

You can't have heavy cream because it is dairy, and dairy is off plan because it is a known gut disruptor.

Good to hear the bloating is easing for you.

[ultrarunnergirl]

Hang in there jocko!

[jocko]

I am getting close to the end of my 30, (day 22), bloating is gone and I have pulled my belt in a couple notches. I didn't get that burst of energy but after a couple weeks the sick stomach went away. I feel much better not eating all the carbs and sugar but I probably will have some cream in my coffee and maybe a couple of drinks at the end. I have decided to continue on a low carb diet. My question is, if I do have a doughnut or a beer, How long does it take to rid my body of the sugar again and will I feel like s@#t again for two weeks when I eliminate the sugar?

 

Hey ultrarunnergirl I used to be a crazy runner, some days I would run 3 to 4 hours a day and sight see. Now I need a couple new hips and it is hard to get any exorcize, I hope to run again.

Thanks everyone

 

[GFChris]

 

I am getting close to the end of my 30, (day 22), bloating is gone and I have pulled my belt in a couple notches. I didn't get that burst of energy but after a couple weeks the sick stomach went away. I feel much better not eating all the carbs and sugar but I probably will have some cream in my coffee and maybe a couple of drinks at the end. I have decided to continue on a low carb diet. My question is, if I do have a doughnut or a beer, How long does it take to rid my body of the sugar again and will I feel like s@#t again for two weeks when I eliminate the sugar?

 

So glad things are improving for you!

When you reintroduce the cream, alcohol and doughnut, I suggest you do each on separate days (allowing a couple days of Whole30 eating in between), so if you have some sort of reaction, you know the culprit.  With that data, you can then decide how often you want such foods in your life and how much to consume any is worth it to you.

Another note: Whole30 is not low carb.  You get carbs from vegetables and fruit: especially the starchy carbs.  

[jocko]

I'm not a big fan of doughnuts, so I don't intend on going crazy on the sugar. The question was, how long does it take for the sugars to leave the body after I cut them out?

[GFChris]

I'm not a big fan of doughnuts, so I don't intend on going crazy on the sugar. The question was, how long does it take for the sugars to leave the body after I cut them out?

 

I saw your question, and unfortunately I don't have an answer for that.  

To me, the bigger question is, after you have a doughnut post-Whole30 and see how it makes you feel (physically, mentally, craving-wise), to decide how often you want it in your life.  Let's face it: a doughnut is a food that makes one less healthy (beyond sugar, one of the biggies is the unhealthy fat it contains).

[jocko]

Lets approach this from a different angle, If I was just starting the Whole30 program how long does it take for your body to be free of the sugars? I hope that is a straight forward question, what I am looking for is, 1. 2 .3. 4. 5. 6. 7. 8 day or 1 week or 2 weeks etc. I just used those foods as an example.

Thanks

[ultrarunnergirl]

I don't have a scientific answer, and suspect it differs for everyone, but for me it takes a couple of days of feeling extra tired and like a tantrum-throwing toddler who wants to "kill all the things". That's if I eat a decently big serving of sweet stuff (say, 2 pieces of pie).

 

If I just have a few small squares of 85% organic (ie, no soy) dark chocolate I seem to be able to handle that without any problem.

[jocko]

Still not what I was looking for but I goggled the question and the general consensus was 3 days.

Thanks