Brewer5: A Fresh Start

[JessRN]

Hey guys!  I haven't forgot you all.  I just had to work all weekend, and I developed a SUPER nasty sinus infection from the virus I had, so I've barely made it through the last two days at the hospital, let alone had a minute to post.  I'm now on levaquin, a pretty damn strong antibiotic.  

A few very quick thoughts/responses:  Yes, that food I posted held me for 12 hours both shifts (I packed the same thing the next day).  And that was ALL I ate, both days.  I don't know if this is due to me becoming even more keto adapted, or if it's due to illness.  Probably a bit of both.  Also, I was incredibly stressed both days (really high patient acuity level), so my appetite was definitely effected.  

 

I still feel a bit metabolically stalled, even after an entire week of no dairy.  However, I'm down a couple of lbs on the scale.  Again, this could be illness.  We'll see how this goes, I may need to track my macros again and make sure something isn't wonky.  FBG this morning was 76.  I blew barely red on my Ketonix.  The screen grab is below.  

I don't think I knew any of you during my initial Whole30 except Brewer.  But during the process, I had a pelvic ultrasound to confirm placement of an IUD (I was having a lot of bleeding and cramping, sorry if that's TMI), and though the IUD was fine, I was diagnosed with a "complex ovarian cyst" on my left ovary.  Complex cysts are different from the more common simple ovarian cysts that are usually the product of ovulation.  They watch complex cysts to see if they're growing, and if surgery is required.

 

Well, today is my follow-up ultrasound to see what's going on with Brutus.  Yes, I named it.  I won't have the results for a few days, but I'm pretty nervous about it.  I had plugged Brutus into the back of my mind for the last 8 weeks, and really given it minimal thought.  My doctor isn't worried, but sorry, I'm a nurse, and even good doctors can be surprised.  I am just ready for it to be over.  

[Brewer5]

Jess, will be thinking of you today, for sure.  I remember my anxiety as I went through years of abnormal test results.  The constant testing, the monitoring -- sucks.  Either tell me I'm okay, or tell me we need to do something.  I finally switched over to a woman doctor who specializes in abnormal women (LOL)... and she looked over everything and gave me the green light to go back to just yearly pap tests.  That was a HUGE sigh of relief for me.  I have so much anxiety about those appointments, anyway.  I don't need any added stress in that department!

 

I hope you feel better soon & please do report back about your cyst.  Happy thoughts!  

[kirkor]

 

I think maybe you need to make a choice, because otherwise you are putting yourself in that no-man's land we've talked about.

 

Read this on Eades's blog and it reminded me of your comment:

 

*********

So Rule Number One to reduce the time spent in low-carb adaptation purgatory is: Don’t be a wuss when you start your low-carb way of eating.  Keep the carbs cut to the minimum and load up on the fat. Eat fatty cuts of meat, cooked in butter or lard if you want, and force your body over to using the fats and ketones for energy as nature intended. I mean, don’t try to be noble by eating boneless, skinless chicken breasts – instead insert some pats of butter under the skin of a chicken leg and thigh before cooking, and wolf them with your fingers while the fat drips down your arms.  Do not trim the fat from your steaks – eat them from the fat side in.  If you leave anything on your plate, make sure it’s the meat and not the fat.  If you don’t already, learn to love bacon, and don’t cook it ‘til the fat is all gone: eat it wobbly.  Wallow in Mangalitsa lardo.  And whatever you do, for God’s sake, don’t listen to your body during this adaptation period or you’ll never cross the chasm between fat and miserable on your high-carb diet and slim, happy, energetic and low-carb adapted on the other side.

 

https://proteinpower.com/drmike/2011/05/30/tips-tricks-for-starting-or-restarting-low-carb-pt-i/

 

**********

 

I thought "cross the chasm" was a good metaphor

[kirkor]

... Brutus.  Yes, I named it.  

 

 

"Brutus Cystus"

 

[Brewer5]

kirkor:  YES.

 

Thank you for sharing.  I come across so many people here who I believe are stuck in that "no man's land" -- and I think it really sucks.  Most of the time, I just have to stop looking, because I hate what I see.

 

Jess is one I was able to reach a hand out to, and actually help her get across that chasm to the beautiful other side!   She listened to me.  So glad.  And so is she!  

[JessRN]

That's TOTALLY HIM!  haha.  The jerk!

[Brewer5]

Good point (and whole article is good too):

 

**************************

My guess is that some of the people who claim low-carb killed their thyroid, derailed their menstrual cycle, and all that other stuff, were following very low carb diets while also overtraining, not sleeping enough, having other sources of mental & emotional stress, and very likely, most probably, ding-ding-ding, we have a winner -- not eating enough total calories. Women of all ages, but particularly, young women, tend to fall into this calorie hole. Was it low-carb that derailed their hormones, or was it trying to burn not one candle at both ends, but more like ten candles at three ends (if that’s even possible), while basically starving themselves? Whether or not they were aware of it, that may be what was happening: at a cellular level, they were starving. (Even if they didn't feel especially hungry throughout the day. I

’m talking about the cellular level, where we’re not always cognizant of what’s going on.)

 

http://www.tuitnutrition.com/2015/07/stop-saying-ketogenic.html

 

 

kirkor just posted this on his ongoing keto thread, and I wanted to make sure it was seen by all of the women who read here.

 

His thread:

 

http://forum.whole30.com/topic/23540-ketwhole30/

[JessRN]

Yeah, folks.  Here comes the tough love, you have been warned!  I've had a lot of thoughts the last few days I wanted to share here, and here it is, unfiltered LOL.  Nurses are experts at tough love.  My disclaimer:  Keto isn't for everyone!  So if it's not for you, no judgment whatsoever!  Here is my open letter to the world on the subject of a Ketogenic Diet and to those interested in keto:

FAT IS YOUR FRIEND.  YOUR FRIIIIIIIEEEEEIIIIIIIINNNNDDDDD.  Do this or don't if your're starting keto.  All in, or forget it.  No messing with "net" carbs, or trying to minimize the fat.  You might be a person that can have a more liberalized diet and still benefit from ketosis, but you DON'T KNOW unless you start at the bottom.  I notice society these days is all into instant gratification and avoiding discomfort.  Sorry, but that's not how it works with getting fat adapted.  Start at 20g TOTAL carbs a day.  Ok, so maybe you only stay there are week or two, and then you're able to increase.  Just do it.  Do the calculation to figure out your personal protein gram range.  Gluconeogenesis is a real consideration, and if you don't pay attention, you're just working against yourself.  Load up on your fat.  Give it a couple weeks.  Then, you may start personalizing this so it's sustainable for your life.  Because of course, that is the ultimate goal with keto- sustainability and life change.  

 

Being half in, and "playing" with keto isn't going to help you.  It actually dig you deeper into no man's land, and it can even cause you to gain weight.  It can play with your mood, sleep, and anxiety.

 

As for testing.  Do or don't, but if you do, do it right (see a theme here?).  Keto strips are crap.  Sorry guys, I'm a nurse.  And I'm here to tell you keto strips are absolute BS for nutritional ketosis.  They are designed to help diabetics know if they are starting to go into diabetic ketoacidosis.  Guess what?  That's not even the same type of ketone as you reach in nutritional ketosis (Jimmy goes into this in detail in his book Keto Clarity).  They're not telling you anything.  You can blood test (the gold standard), or you can spring for one of these Ketonix suckers, which I have and still feel a bit suspicious of LOL.  Or don't test and follow the guidelines and pay attention to your body.  But as others have said, this can be emotionally maddening, as those first weeks of becoming fat adapted can be pretty uncomfortable.  And without some confirmation you're heading in the right direction, you may be tempted to throw in the towel or increase your carbs.  

 

Ketosis isn't for everyone.  You can eat LCHF with moderate protein without following ketosis guidelines and have a super healthy diet.  And if you're a very active person or not metabolically struggling to begin with, that whole protein-veggie-fat template works for EVERYONE.  However:  If you have trouble losing weight, are diabetic, are super carb sensitive, notice your moods are all over the place, have horrible sleep, or struggle with anxiety and/or depression, I would encourage you to give keto a real chance.  

 

I'll close with my personal experience.  I'm in my mid 30's, and I've struggled with my weight since I was about 12.  I have the meanest, most psycho Sugar Dragon you have every met.  I have a history of binge eating.  I've done Atkins, I've done South Beach.  I went to nursing school and took many fancy classes on physiology, including plenty of info on metabolism.  Our nutrition classes were absolute BS, but that's another rant for another day.  I know intimately how insulin works and HAVE TO in order to not, you know, kill my patients.  So I came to Whole30 needing a real solution.  The metabolic science was SOLID.  I did my Whole30 to the letter.  I did not eat one SINGLE molecule of something unapproved for 40 days (yes, I did a little more).  And you know what?  I felt like shit.  My moods were all over the place.  I wasn't sleeping well.  My energy was HORRIBLE, unsteady, and unpredictable.  My anxiety that I've struggled with my whole life would ebb and flow in really weird ways, where I'd get glimpses of it abating, only for it to come back with a vengeance the next day.  I would post on the forums looking for help, and would be told to.... ready?  Increase my carbs.  Sigh.  Brewer saw all this and reached out to me.  We talked.  And talked.  And talked some more.  She saw that the whole30 template was leaving me in no-man's land.  Long story and many conversations later, I decided to attempt keto.  It's been about a month, and all those problems I had have MELTED AWAY.  My energy is good and reliable now.  It's steady.  No more HANGRY.  No more shaking at work by 10am because I have not eaten.  My sleep is INCREDIBLE!  No more nurse's little helpers haha (benadryl and melatonin).  Keto is a process, and I'm still figuring out my body and what works.  Weight loss is still a huge part of my motivation, so I'm working on finding the sweet spot for my body as far as food volume, etc.  And I need to start exercising again.  But it's working.  I was so worried about feeling deprived, and I'm here to tell you, most of the time I don't.  The benefits just outweigh all that.  

My point is, this was the right choice for ME.  Is it right for you?  I don't know, that's only something you can know.  But I can tell you, I cannot think of anyone that wouldn't benefit from at least trying a ketogenic diet (barring some medical conditions).  My body feels completely different.  But keto is something that can be done incorrectly, and it's something that can be damaging if not done correctly.  Keto is kind of like the ocean- it's a powerful force, and requires respect to be interacted with safely LOL.  So if you do decide keto is right for you, give the process respect, and do it right.  And if anyone ever needs any help with that WE ARE HERE FOR YOU.

Whew.  Ok.  I'm done.  LOL

[Brewer5]

(I had this already typed up, getting ready to submit it -- and now I see that Jess has made a HUGE post.  But I am referencing kirkor's post, that I re-posted here.)

 

-----------------

 

^ I think it is a really good point, and one that I have made here before.   We should probably all go read the article in its entirety.

 

I have figured out that I am just naturally less hungry during the first part of my cycle, leading up to ovulation.  The second part of the cycle, then, leading up to menstruation -- I am more hungry.  I do eat more often, and just more food in general.  This is a huge part of why I have such a problem with tracking -- there is nothing natural about it.  My body is telling me things, and I am listening to them, and I don't need a computer program in the middle of that process.

 

What's funny is I was already in the process of typing a post about my increased appetite when kirkor posted here today.

 

I was going to say that my appetite really did not increase the first week of increased steps -- but the past few days, there has been a noticeable difference.  As I typed the above paragraph, I realized that this is not only due to my increase in activity catching up with me, but also due to ovulation.  This is what my body does ~ it tells me things ~ and I listen to it.   ...It's an acquired skill, and one that many women do not have.  I certainly did not have this skill in the past.  I tried to understand my body ~ I tried really hard, actually ~ but we did not speak the same language, at all.

 

Another thing is that I used to ask the question:  "Do I need more carbs?"  "Is this what my body is telling me?"  But I have decided, after plenty of research and self-experimentation, that this is not the answer for me.  

 

Sometimes I need more food in general, yes.  Sometimes I need more sleep.  Maybe I need to stop trying to do 50 things at the same time.   That paragraph he posted pretty much sums it up.  I don't think it's a question of carbs -- I think women often just try to do too much, on too little.  

 

Keto is a big adjustment all on its own, and not one that everybody just sails through.  So if you're going to ask your body to do this, just remember to respect it enough to give it everything it needs to make the transition.  The fat dripping down the arms visual is a good one.      You may also need to rest.

[Brewer5]

And you know what?  I felt like shit.  My moods were all over the place.  I wasn't sleeping well.  My energy was HORRIBLE, unsteady, and unpredictable.  My anxiety that I've struggled with my whole life would ebb and flow in really weird ways, where I'd get glimpses of it abating, only for it to come back with a vengeance the next day.  I would post on the forums looking for help, and would be told to.... ready?  Increase my carbs.  Sigh.  Brewer saw all this and reached out to me. 

 

 

You brought me to tears with this post today, Jess ~ I just want you to know that.  

 

I cannot explain how happy I am with the transformation I have seen in you.  Thank you for being here and sharing your story.  It means the world to me.

 

[JessRN]

You brought me to tears with this post today, Jess ~ I just want you to know that.  

 

I cannot explain how happy I am with the transformation I have seen in you.  Thank you for being here and sharing your story.  It means the world to me.

 

You are a very, very, very special part of my journey, lady.  Thank you for everything! <3

[JessRN]

I'm back from my probing. lol  So, one of the double-edged swords of being an RN is that some of us can read ultrasounds pretty well.  I am one of those people.

It's still there.  It doesn't look like it's grown, but it's still there.  Freaking Brutus.  

I will take deep breaths and try to wait for the official radiology report and the change to talk to my doctor, whom I adore.  I just wanted to keep you guys posted.  I'm making a large effort not to go to a dark or defeated place with this information, but yeah... it's there. 

[Brewer5]

Sorry, Jess.  

 

You know that going to a dark, defeated place won't solve anything.....  just adds problems onto problems.  Go for an invigorating walk instead!  

 

So... if it has not changed at all... what is the next step?  Just continue to monitor?

[JessRN]

So... if it has not changed at all... what is the next step?  Just continue to monitor?

 

That's my assumption.  I need to talk to my OBGYN.  The only time these things get scary is if they're getting bigger.  That can mean surgery.  It's rarely cancer in women our age.  I would hate to loose the ovary, and I DEFINITELY don't want surgery.  But since it hasn't grown, my guess is another ultrasound in 6 months or so.  We'll see what Dr. Wright says in a few days.  

[thegoldengrahamgirl]

For a previous fat-phone, I'm pretty impressed I'm up to 65-70% calories from fat - and yes, I am eating coconut oil by the spoon if hungry. I'm going to get this!

Monday: 76P-47C-103F 67% calories from fat.

Today should be even better with 43 carbs (21 net).

Just gotta watch that the protein doesn't creep up - I'm hoping that my lifting is using it.

[JessRN]

You know that going to a dark, defeated place won't solve anything.....  just adds problems onto problems.  Go for an invigorating walk instead!  

I would, Brewer dear, if every step I took didn't vibrate into my massively infected sinuses and make me want to take an ice pick to my cheekbone to relieve the pressure LOL  

[thegoldengrahamgirl]

Hrmmm....first of all, fat-phone is supposed to be fat-phobe. And somehow I missed all of the fabulous posts above when I was reading on my iPhone.  Way to go, Jess!  Thanks for sharing the information.  I don't think I'll bother with the strips.  I'm still focused on what I'm feeling (or not feeling).  P.S. - Sorry to hear about your sinus infection.  I went through an unprecedented TWO (requiring 7-day antibiotic courses each time) in less than a month back in December.  SUCKS.

 

Now I'm worried that I'm not eating enough calories.  Which is hard, because I'm trying to not even LOOK at the calories and just focus on the macros, keeping protein and carbs suitably low and eating *almost* to appetite with the fat.  Because I AM trying to lose weight (body fat, specifically).  So I need a negative energy balance.  So I should expect to feel hungry?  I am DEFINITELY prioritizing sleep - I often fall asleep in my son's room before 9pm and then transition to my bedroom between 10pm-midnight, and sleep through until 6am.

 

Glad I'm not muddling through this alone!

[Brewer5]

I don't count calories and I ~in no way~ believe that you have to, for fat loss.

I think the main point here today is, if you're feeling like shit ~ don't automatically just blame it on keto. People do things wrong, people give up too soon because of it. There are a lot of tips, tricks, and tweaks.

Listen to your body if it tells you to eat more. Stop when you're full. If you are feeling good & workouts are going well... Should be all the confirmation you need. Right?

[JessRN]

What she said /\

[thegoldengrahamgirl]

Feeling good so far, although I'm probably not in ketosis yet.  But the daily headaches I was getting at the end of my Whole30 are almost gone (when I was probably in no-man's land).

 

I'm going to keep tracking macros just to push carbs down, down, DOWN and keep an eye on proteins (and then I might really start to feel terribly, but I'm expecting that and can deal with it.  I think - if not, I'll come here!).  So, indirectly I'm tracking calories but I'm trying to ignore those as much as possible.  I don't have a "calorie" goal.

 

Thanks!

[Alisonlcarver]

 So I should expect to feel hungry? 

 

I'm interested in the answer to this question as well.  I was under the impression that ketosis involved eating LCHF and moderate protein to satiety (meaning you eat til you're full--not stuffed, but not still partially hungry)

[kirkor]

I think hunger while dieting depends on several factors: how steep your deficit, how much extra fat you're carrying, macro composition (low carb yes, but fat & protein affect satiety as well), hydration levels, activity levels, hormones, mental factors (framing, discipline, motivation, past experience, etc), and probably a handful of other things too.

[Brewer5]

I'm interested in the answer to this question as well.  I was under the impression that ketosis involved eating LCHF and moderate protein to satiety (meaning you eat til you're full--not stuffed, but not still partially hungry)

 

I guess I am not sure what you ladies are asking.

 

I read Lauren's post as:  "I want to lose weight, so I have to be in a deficit, so I should expect to feel hungry because I am eating less food than my body 'needs'."

 

And this is dead wrong.  Keto is so good at making you satiated, it's almost just downright ridiculous.  You should NOT feel hungry, and you should NOT be struggling with cravings.

 

Then I thought maybe I misunderstood her.  I thought maybe she was worried about not feeling hungry.  And that's not true, either.  Lol.  You DO know when "it's time" to eat...  It just should never be, "Holy crap, I want to eat everything in sight."  "RIGHT NOW".  ...That part just... goes away.  

 

You also should get really good at stopping when you're done.  Sometimes this means: when food is still left on my plate.  The last two times we have been to Five Guys ~ I ordered a double burger, no bun, with lettuce and mayo only.  I chop this all up in the little tin it comes in, add a little salt, and eat it like a salad, basically, with a fork.  It's one of my favorite things.  It's one of the only places/times we go out to eat.  And the last two times, I have given about half of my food to my teenager because my brain was saying: "DONE".  I'm not trying to lose weight.  It has NOTHING to do with that.  I just hit a point of:  Done.

 

Now, sometimes I eat everything on my plate, and I still feel hungry for more.  In this case, I do something really complicated -- so follow closely:  

 

I eat more food.

 

[thegoldengrahamgirl]

Brewer, you read my post exactly right.  I *DO* feel hungry sometimes (not ravenous, not wanting to binge on everything in sight, but YES, I could eat salmon or broccoli) and I absolutely thought "I should expect to feel hungry because I am eating less food than my body 'needs'." (Negative energy balance).  I either go to bed (if it happens in the evening), or drink more water (daytime), or, if I'm REALLY hungry, eat a spoonful or two of coconut cream (or coconut oil).  I don't want to crash my metabolism by chronic under-eating, but I also don't want to over-think this.

 

 

The feeling of being DONE with food left on the plate does happen though.  I literally left 2 florets of broccoli on my plate because my mind was telling me I was DONE with broccoli for that meal.

 

Ali, this should be different for you because you're not looking to lose weight (?).  Yes, you eat to satiety on LCHF.

[Kmlynne]

ok - I need to chime in here.....  I am trying to lose weight.  That was my main goal when I started w30, and when I found keto.  Of course, I also wanted to find a way to not only lose the weight, but to sustain the weight loss.

 

One of the hardest things that I have learned is learning to eat.  Seriously.

 

I used to count calories (and points, and macros, and a whole lot of other things).  It doesn't work - at least in the long run.

 

3 years ago, when I started this journey, I didn't have any clue what it meant to feel hungry, or to feel full.  I could seriously eat (binge is probably a better word) a gross amount of food, and still think that I was hungry.  I remember telling someone one day that I never know what it is like to feel full/satiated.  When I would diet, I was ALWAYS hungry - I thought it went with the diet territory - the whole "I have to eat less than I burn" kind of thinking.  

 

Once I started eating the template meals consistently, I started to understand a little bit what it felt like to be eating "normal" amounts of food.  When I would go off track and eat a huge meal (buffet, etc), I would begin to understand what it felt like to be overfull.  That led to understanding what hunger felt like (although I admit I am still working on this a little bit because I find I am fine, fine, fine, starving - I need to learn those subtle signs).   

 

I think that our bodies are wonderful machines and if we keep them well primed, they will regulate.  When we need fuel, our bodies will tell us.  When we don't, well, it will tell us that also.  I think that our bodies WANT to keep us in a position where we are healthy and trim.  But we learned to ignore what our bodies were telling us.  We ate things that masked our natural responses.  We overindulge.  We put chemicals in our bodies making our minds believe it is food/fuel.  

 

When I started keto, I tracked macros for about a week - mostly just to see what proportions of fats/proteins/carbs I needed.  Then I stopped counting.  If you look at my log, you will see that some days I eat 2 meals, and some days I eat 4.  I try to listen to my body and do what it tells me.  I am steadily losing weight by doing this.  Some days I am active and some days I am not.  Usually, the days that I eat more I tend to be less active.  

 

Listen to yourself, and begin to trust that what your body is telling you is real

 

And I have to reiterate what Brewer said - because it made me smile!   "Now, sometimes I eat everything on my plate, and I still feel hungry for more.  In this case, I do something really complicated -- so follow closely:  

 

I eat more food."