Sugar Dragon Slayers

[Alisonlcarver]

And I did not do a Whole 30 in December.  I've been riding my own bike for about a year now, with no further need for actual "Whole 30's".  

 

I've been requested to be here for info and support on their journeys.  

 

Brewer is who I aspire to be.

 

Seriously.

[whole30determined]

Thanks Alisonlcarver!   I am going to check out that Whole30 log now!   Just having some people that I can "be real" with and talk through my fears, frustrations, wins and even help get me down off the ledge of diving back into my pints of ice cream.   LOL!   And I just ordered that movie, That Sugar Film, and I can't wait to watch it tonight.   All such helpful information!   i want to go back and read through the posts on this forum as well, I see lots of people are on this, which is awesome!   

 

I'm in!   Day 1 and my head it already throbbing from sugar withdrawal.  To think what it does to the rest of my body.  I try not to be mad at myself, but I am SO angry that I went down that path again of sugar overload!!  This time, I'm using my anger to kick-start the reason I need to kick this once and for all.   

 

I know people will think I'm crazy or say, "yeah, right.....I'm sure you'll eat it again".  But, I'm standing firm!   And I'm doing this for ME, not for my friends or family.  Thanks for all the encouragement on this forum!  It was a great great idea!

[SimpleNotEasy]

Thanks Alisonlcarver!   I am going to check out that Whole30 log now!   Just having some people that I can "be real" with and talk through my fears, frustrations, wins and even help get me down off the ledge of diving back into my pints of ice cream.   LOL!   And I just ordered that movie, That Sugar Film, and I can't wait to watch it tonight.   All such helpful information!   i want to go back and read through the posts on this forum as well, I see lots of people are on this, which is awesome!   

 

I'm in!   Day 1 and my head it already throbbing from sugar withdrawal.  To think what it does to the rest of my body.  I try not to be mad at myself, but I am SO angry that I went down that path again of sugar overload!!  This time, I'm using my anger to kick-start the reason I need to kick this once and for all.   

 

I know people will think I'm crazy or say, "yeah, right.....I'm sure you'll eat it again".  But, I'm standing firm!   And I'm doing this for ME, not for my friends or family.  Thanks for all the encouragement on this forum!  It was a great great idea!

 

Welcome and amen! No more sugar. It is just NOT worth it. 

 

You can absolutely be real and talk through your fears, frustrations, ups and downs with us. We will definitely talk you down from the ledge and also be the safety net at the bottom if you already jumped. (But we encourage you not to. ) You are not alone! Glad to have you aboard. 

[SimpleNotEasy]

Ok - so I met with the nutritionist I work with today. She helps me with mindset stuff. I thought I would share three things that she asked me to journal about. 

 

1. What are the "musts" for me to continue in my "new lifestyle"? 

 

2. What are the yellow light signs for me that tell me to slow down when I'm heading off track?

 

3. What are the red light signs that tell me to STOP and move away from whatever I'm about to do that may cause me to really have trouble getting back to my new lifestyle?

 

I will share some of my thoughts later when I have had a chance to process these on my own first. Y'all can share yours, too, if you feel these are helpful questions for you. 

 

On another note, are y'all tea drinkers? The sections Lauren quoted above about coffee maxing out the liver's detoxification capacity makes me think I need to fall in love with herbal teas again. I still want a cup of coffee with coconut milk in the morning, but in winter, sometimes I like a hot drink after lunch or dinner. I should probably switch from the decaf coffee I've been drinking for this. I'd love to know any favorites y'all have. In the past, I've enjoyed Tazo passion tea and wild sweet orange. But I'd like to move to organic ones.

[SimpleNotEasy]

I just read the article by Dr. Eades that Brewer recommended and it turns out that decaf seems to be ok (at least in terms of the liver stuff). However, I am still interested in hearing if any of you have favorite organic tea recommendations.

 

Also, he mentioned something I'd never thought of - using decaf espresso beans rather than regular decaf (which isn't very tasty). 

[littleg]

Stash licorice tea.

[Alisonlcarver]

Thanks Alisonlcarver!   I am going to check out that Whole30 log now!   Just having some people that I can "be real" with and talk through my fears, frustrations, wins and even help get me down off the ledge of diving back into my pints of ice cream.   LOL!   And I just ordered that movie, That Sugar Film, and I can't wait to watch it tonight.   All such helpful information!   i want to go back and read through the posts on this forum as well, I see lots of people are on this, which is awesome!   

 

I'm in!   Day 1 and my head it already throbbing from sugar withdrawal.  To think what it does to the rest of my body.  I try not to be mad at myself, but I am SO angry that I went down that path again of sugar overload!!  This time, I'm using my anger to kick-start the reason I need to kick this once and for all.   

 

I know people will think I'm crazy or say, "yeah, right.....I'm sure you'll eat it again".  But, I'm standing firm!   And I'm doing this for ME, not for my friends or family.  Thanks for all the encouragement on this forum!  It was a great great idea!

 

Yes, you are in the right place.  My friends here helped me off of a ledge last night.  The lessons learned and mindfulness gained during the Whole 30 are HUGE here too.  I have so much more mindfulness about what I am eating now compared to where I was just 46 days ago.  I was sugar-binging 3-4 days a week before my December Whole 30.  And I've done two Whole 30's in the past, successfully. That sugar dragon works slowly--it has patience and will wear you down over time.  It's a gradual process but once the dragon is let back in, it can TAKE OVER.  I am so thankful for the lessons I learned during this past Whole 30.  It really has been a nutritional reset for me.  I never want to go back to where I was.  It is a vicious cycle with the sugar dragon.  You crave sugar, you eat sugar, you feel bad about yourself, you get discouraged, you have the 'what the hell' mentality so you binge...on sugar.    And around and around it goes.  I am so glad you are here with us.  It's great that there is a group of us here for each other because usually there is one person who needs help while the others are thriving.  (Last night was my turn to need help--and lots of it!)  Without the Whole 30 and without this group (both for help but also for accountability), last night would have gone a lot differently.  So thankful!! 

 

I LOVE your attitude!  I am not a person who easily gets mad or upset, but I love getting riled up about subjects related to nutrition.  It fuels my fire.  It’s motivating. One of the things I say all the time when I read a good part of a nutrition book or watch a significant part of a diet movie is that I get so pissed off!  USE THAT FIRE!  Use your anger!  Get mad at sugar and carbs!  You have done nothing wrong!  Yes, we have to hold ourselves accountable for the foods we put into our mouths.  But certain foods are engineered (literally, in a lab.  Ew.) to make us crave them, want them, purchase them even though we know they are bad for us, think/fantasize about them, and fight ourselves over their consumption…And after you watch “That sugar film” you will be even more pissed off at sugar. I can’t wait to hear what you think of it.  “That sugar film” was a suggestion from Brewer for our group, and I can’t thank her enough for the suggestion.  Brewer is our nutrition guru, our leader of sorts.  Haha, don’t let your head get too big now, Brewer.

 

Welcome and amen! No more sugar. It is just NOT worth it. 

 

You can absolutely be real and talk through your fears, frustrations, ups and downs with us. We will definitely talk you down from the ledge and also be the safety net at the bottom if you already jumped. (But we encourage you not to. ) You are not alone! Glad to have you aboard. 

 

We're about to get religious in this forum, because I second that AMEN!

 

Haha, you guys knew I was a total nerd, right?

[thegoldengrahamgirl]

...I read the part about caffeine being a toxin.  What about a little stimulant called theobromine? 

 

Oh, I'm pissed all right!  I'm going to do a lot of reading and research this week and figure out what fruits, veggies, and nuts are acceptable on LCHF.  I have a feeling that these foods aren't going to help me banish my carb cravings, and I am figuring out that some foods are NOT worth the consequences.  I plan to start LCHF on Friday after I do a little bit of research figuring out what the heck I'm getting myself into! 

Yes, quit the CrioBru already for gosh sakes!  Lol.

 

Hint: EVERYTHING is acceptable ("everything is permissible; not everything is beneficial"), if you're willing to eat itty-bitty portions and douse them liberally with FAT.  Like 1/4 cup cooked sweet potato with 2 tsp ghee.  But I say "THINK GREEN."  Nutritional powerhouses and very few carbs/calories per portion.  Spinach, collard greens, kale, swiss chard, all lettuces, cabbage leaves, celery, zucchini (a little bit starchier), broccoli (starchier still), avocado (great source of fat), olives.

 

Nuts, just like on the Whole30, are a suboptimal source of fat and also contain CARBS.  Macadamias are top choice but I've been trying to stick to 1-2 oz. and no more than every few days at most.

 

I've had good success avoiding dairy (again, your research might show lots of full-fat dairy products in LCHF) by sticking to coconut, olives/olive oil, avocado, macadamia nuts, fatty meats, ghee, bacon fat, etc.

 

But tomorrow will be cheese reintro day just because of that darn lasagna dinner at my neighbours.  Oh well, it was a reintro I was going to do eventually anyways.

 

Excited for you!

[thegoldengrahamgirl]

Oops, I just got religious too!

 

Welcome, Whole30determined.  Glad you came over!  And no, you don't have to go keto or LCHF (or HFLC).  That's just something some of us are currently pursuing.

 

Cheers,

 

-Lauren (GGG)

[Brewer5]

I read the part about caffeine being a toxin.  What about a little stimulant called theobromine? 

 

 

"In the liver, theobromine is metabolized into xanthine and subsequently into methyluric acid."

 

"As with caffeine, theobromine can cause sleeplessness, tremors, restlessness, anxiety, as well as contribute to increased production of urine.^[45] Additional side effects include loss of appetite, nausea, vomiting, and withdrawal headaches."

 

"Animals that metabolize theobromine (found in chocolate) more slowly, such as dogs [1], can succumb to theobromine poisoning from as little as 50 grams."

 

"Theobromine is known to induce gene mutations in lower eukaryotes and bacteria. In 1991 and 1997, research by the International Agency for Research on Cancerhad shown that genetic mutations occurred in higher eukaryotic cells, specifically cultured mammalian cells. Despite this, theobromine is still listed as safe for human consumption due to inadequate evidence of carcinogenicity."

 

For Laura:

 

"As it is a myocardial stimulant as well as a vasodilator, it increases heartbeat, and also dilates blood vessels, causing a reduced blood pressure."

 

Man, I found this really interesting -- and may put it to work whenever someone has a cough again.  I knew this about coffee, but who wants to give their sick kid coffee?  Or any kid, for that matter?

 

"A 2004 study published by Imperial College London concluded that theobromine has an antitussive (cough-reducing) effect superior to codeine by suppressing vagus nerve activity.^[43] In the study, 1,000 milligrams (0.035 oz) theobromine (equivalent to ~71 grams (2.5 oz) dark chocolate) significantly increased the threshold of capsaicin concentration required to induce coughs when compared with a placebo."

 

And this is just awful:

 

"In 2014, four American black bears were found dead at a bait site in New Hampshire. A necropsy and toxicology reports performed at the University of New Hampshire in 2015 confirmed they died of heart failure caused by theobromine after they consumed 41 kilograms (90 lb) of chocolate and doughnuts placed at the site as bait. A similar incident killed a black bear cub in Michigan in 2011."

 

Good old Wikipedia!  

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theobromine

 

----------

 

I do still consume some 100% baking chocolate (no sugar) and I also drink coffee.  So I understand the effect these things have on our bodies.  It IS an addiction, and I'm very aware of it.  I have quit both of these things multiple times.

 

I was down to mostly water-processed (no chemicals) decaf coffee before we got the puppy.  Sleep deprivation hit me hard, and the regular coffee and super dark chocolate crept in again to "prop me up".  See my signature today?  I have been feeling over-stimulated sometimes lately, and my body says it's time to cut back again.  Puppy is sleeping through the night, for the most part -- now it's time to get myself on a better schedule.

[Brewer5]

Brewer is our nutrition guru, our leader of sorts.  Haha, don’t let your head get too big now, Brewer.

 

I appreciate that you want me to share them ~ but my experiences in life have been quite humbling.  

 

"When pride comes, then comes disgrace, but with humility comes wisdom." ~ Proverbs 11:2

 

Just keeping up with the religious theme here.  

[SimpleNotEasy]

I wanted to mention this and get y'all's input - I am starting to notice a few cravings crop up beginning last night. I have had "intrusive thoughts" of salted nuts (purchased for son's brown bag lunches) and sun butter. I ate the salted nuts. I did not eat the sun butter.

 

Yesterday, I was disappointed in the lunch that was provided at my church meeting. Sometimes I forget that not everyone "gets it" even if they understand gluten free and dairy free. So it was a vegetable soup which had a few beans and a few pieces of corn in there, along with a few green beans and pieces of something like spinach (could have been collard greens - I truly don't know). Mostly, it was salty broth, if we are being honest. Then there was a salad that had walnuts, pumpkin seeds and craisins in it with a balsamic dressing that I am sure had sugar in it. And it had feta crumbled on top. I managed to avoid the feta and most of the craisins. I used only a drizzle of dressing. Zero meat of any type. I also ate a ziplock bag of a handful of raw macadamia nuts that I had in my purse from a couple weeks ago when I thought I might be skipping a meal while out. 

 

Looking back, I realize that I could have just skipped this meal. I was not actually hungry when I ate it. I just got in line with the people I'd been talking to and served a plate of salad and grabbed the cup of soup and sat down with them and ate it. It was only afterward that I realized that even at 1:30 p.m., I was still pretty sated from my 9 a.m. breakfast of scrambled eggs, bacon and sautéed (in coconut oil) spinach and coffee with coconut milk. 

 

So do we think this lunch was what caused the cravings? 

 

Or is it the fact that I have something in my house that I want to eat and is "technically" not off limits?

 

I'm also going to journal about the questions that my nutritionist gave me which may also provide some answers. 

[Alisonlcarver]

DANG IT!  You know what this means, Brewer!!

[Alisonlcarver]

walnuts, pumpkin seeds and craisins in it with a balsamic dressing that I am sure had sugar in it.

 

This. 

 

Nuts, fruits, and sugar.

 

And having technically 'allowed' snack foods available.

[Brewer5]

LOL. Yes, dear... I have known it all along...

[Alisonlcarver]

FINE!  I'll start on Friday.

[Brewer5]

You know, I actually wouldn't recommend that.

I think you've taken a huge first step, just in realizing what a powerful effect it has on you.

Maybe others will disagree ~ but I feel like sometimes, baby steps are in order. Friday -- you've announced going LCHF... Which is going to be pretty big for you. Maybe bigger than you realize. Now I see that you are not just going LCHF, but doing a "Keto Whole 30" ~ which is an added layer of stress about ingredients, rules, etc.

Crio Bru is doing something for you, just like coffee and 100% chocolate are doing for me. Therefore, we will experience withdrawal from those items. You will feel sadness, like you've lost an old friend. All of those feelings that come from quitting an addicting substance.

I personally did not give up coffee for any of my Whole 30's, but I always found that I could cut WAY back because I felt so good. I didn't "need" it. It was a welcome change ~ but not a forced one.

Maybe get yourself all in order for your Whole 30, and tackle the Crio Bru a little at a time -- or plan for a cold-turkey QUIT once you *really* feel solid with your nutrition. That way you *know* that what you are feeling is strictly from the lack of Crio Bru.

Ultimately, it will be up to you and what you feel is best for your body ~ just also be sure to consider not losing your mind in the process.

[Alisonlcarver]

Maybe others will disagree ~ but I feel like sometimes, baby steps are in order. Friday -- you've announced going LCHF... Which is going to be pretty big for you. Maybe bigger than you realize. Now I see that you are not just going LCHF, but doing a "Keto Whole 30" ~ which is an added layer of stress about ingredients, rules, etc.

 

Yes, this is going to be quite the undertaking.  Besides not wanting to throw away $100 in groceries, that's another reason for postponing my start date to this Friday.  I need to do some research and figure out just exactly what the heck I've committed myself to.  I don't do many things halfway though, so Keto Whole 30 it is.  Other than some sugar in my dressing this past Friday night, and some cheese, sugary ham and dairy/sugar dressing, and a piece of pizza this past Saturday I've been following the basic Whole 30 guidelines anyway since the start of my December Whole 30. 

 

I need a clean up even more though. 

 

I've let fruits and nuts and nut butters become a routine part of my day and those things are certainly not getting rid of my sweet tooth or cravings.  I have increasing invading thoughts of off-plan foods I want to eat (namely my favorite cheesecake from the Cheesecake Factory--thankfully the closest CF to us is almost an hour away.)  While I am still having a hard time thinking of sweet potato and winter squash as unhealthy, now that I have read 'Why we get fat' I can't deny the science that low-carb is the way to go.  And I don't want to reintroduce anything non-Whole 30 because I feel too darn good eating Whole 30.

 

Therefore, Keto Whole 30.

[Brewer5]

I know people will think I'm crazy or say, "yeah, right.....I'm sure you'll eat it again".  But, I'm standing firm! 

 

A key point that has been really helpful for all of us is to realize that the addiction to sugar IS the same as an addiction to smoking, alcohol, drugs, whatever.

 

No one wants to admit that they are an addict ~ that can make us feel bad.  But it is actually quite freeing.  Once you fully admit that you cannot have sugar without wanting more sugar -- you realize that it is affecting your brain in a way that is out of your control.  This is the nature of addiction.  You feed it or you starve it.  That part IS a choice.

 

I have said it so many times on this forum, and I will say it again:  

 

I do not smoke cigarettes on vacation, on my birthday, or for the Holidays.  It is not something I do "to relax" on special occasions.  

 

You can fill in that ^ blank with whatever your problem foods are.  The right answer will never be to put something in your body that makes you feel like an addict.  The outcome will ALWAYS be the same.

[Alisonlcarver]

Ladies, I'm considering reading 'Keto clarity.' Would you recommend it?

[Brewer5]

It is a GREAT book to be armed with info about keto, see a variety of doctors and "experts " chime in, and dispel the myths. He includes a detailed chapter about each of the macronutrients. Addresses FAQs and concerns.

He also shares quite a bit about his story ~ and stories of a variety of other people. I do not know if there are any runners, specifically.

There are recipes, a meal plan, and food lists. These would include several non-Whole-30 items, like dairy and artificial sweeteners.

And he talks about monitoring -- A LOT. He will have you convinced that you MUST be tracking & measuring -- at least for awhile. I don't actually think all of this is necessary. So I would tell you to ignore a lot of that stuff for your particular case.

I am going to get out Phinney & Volek's "Performance" book and see if that may be more of what you are looking for. But tell me -- what are you looking for? I have read and I own most of the keto books that are out there so far.

[Alisonlcarver]

I am looking for a sustainable way to eat that fuels my body and my workouts (and that I can do in the future when not marathon training and still maintain my weight without too much effort.) I am looking for a way to eat that doesn't allow the possibility of craving-inducing foods. I do feel food freedom on Whole 30, but know there's more out there that I can gain. I want my blood sugar and insulin to be well regulated so that I am burning fat--dietary and body. I want my addiction and cravings to be gone. I want to not even think about desserts, and not struggle with the question of should I allow that food because it looks delicious. I want the struggles with food choices gone. I want energy without needing a stimulant. I do still want to eat delicious foods and still enjoy my foods though. And since I'm a newbie to this, I want a dummy-proof list of foods that I can consume, without having to track or measure. I guess I want it all...is that too much to ask?

[Brewer5]

Keto Clarity is a good read.  

 

I can't believe Taubes didn't give you food lists.  

 

There are food lists in Grain Brain and Brain Maker, and those are really good ones to read someday, too.

 

Whole 30 gives you a food list, right?

 

Here:

 

http://whole30.com/downloads/whole30-shopping-list.pdf

 

You could go through that, cross off whatever you've decided is a problem, and -- there you go!

 

Here is a helpful list of vegetable carb counts:

 

http://www.ruled.me/best-low-carb-vegetables-ketogenic-diet/

[thegoldengrahamgirl]

I've seen artificial sweeteners in "keto" recipes online, too.  Sounds like a bad idea to me - I'll be steering clear (despite my love of stevia in coffee, especially full-fat lattes).  I might just poke the dragon a little bit and do that once as a structured reintroduction.  Or, maybe not.

[Brewer5]

So do we think this lunch was what caused the cravings? 

 

 

I do.  I also think the nut cravings may be a sign that you need more food or more fat, overall.....  

 

But I also know that when we start having these off-plan foods... mixtures of this and that, with more things in them than we probably even care to know...  well, it doesn't usually take us anywhere good.  

 

As you said, also, the meal was pretty much absent of protein and probably pretty low-fat, right?  So ~ basically the opposite of what you know will be satiating.  You may have actually been better off just burning off your own body fat at that particular luncheon.  As you have already noted.