Sugar Dragon Slayers

[Alisonlcarver]

I was talking with a co-worker the other day about the Whole 30 and what I am learning about insulin, blood sugar, and fat storage. She was in agreement and sounded knowledgable on the subject and said she had read the book 'Sugar busters.' She agreed that carbohydrates were a huge factor in weight gain and diabetes. We talked for about 30 minutes about what she knows and what I have been learning about. I was so pleased to be talking to another health-conscious individual.

Then she pulled out a bag of dark chocolate M&M's and ate the bag.

[Brewer5]

I was really not considering ketosis at the outset of the start of this Whole 30 but am now. At least, I am considering low-carb.

 

 

Okay, so -- point #1 -- which is really important -- as in, make you or break you -- is that if you are going to go low-carb, you HAVE to go high-fat.

 

The definition of a ketogenic diet is high fat, moderate protein, very low carb.

 

You do NOT want to do high-protein.  

 

The key is in removing the carbs, and upping the fat.  You can call this LCHF...  HFLC... or you can call this keto.  Call it whatever you like -- but if you are going to cut the carbs, you are going to replace that energy with fat.  It's the only way it works.

[Brewer5]

Then she pulled out a bag of dark chocolate M&M's and ate the bag.

 

If I had a dollar for every real-life experience I have had like this, I would be on a freakin beach right now.  Somewhere.  

 

I literally cannot think of one person IRL who truly understands and appreciates what I do regarding nutrition.  That is why I am so thankful for the friends and connections I have made here.  

[littleg]

 

I literally cannot think of one person IRL who truly understands and appreciates what I do regarding nutrition.  That is why I am so thankful for the friends and connections I have made here.  

 

I might understand and appreciate nutrition, but I had to google IRL 

[Brewer5]

LOL   <-- You do know that one, right?    

[Alisonlcarver]

Just finished reading 'Why we get fat.'

My mind has been changed. My preconceptions of 'healthy' have been modified. My world has been rocked. You get the picture.

I have included lots of quotes and info from this book so far, so I will end my ramblings here with relevant info from the final chapter.

One researcher discusses thoughts of foods that you are trying to avoid as "intrusive thoughts of food." I thought this was an interesting way to think of unwanted food cravings and undesired obsessive thoughts on foods.

Taubes recommends a low-carb, high-fat (LCHF) diet to avoid gaining fat (or to assist with weight loss, for obese persons who need to lose weight.) Hmm, where have we heard this before? He states that protein is moderate, making up 20-25% of the diet. He states that the amount of carbs is not the same for everyone and that each individual will have to find their specific carb number where they are able to maintain their ideal weight without calorie or fat restriction or counting. One number he does throw out there is 60 grams of carbs a day though.

He states that when going from a mainly carb-dense diet to a LCHF diet, people may experience the carb-flu as their bodies adapt to burning fat for fuel and living on ketones. I think we are all familiar with that, and are already fat-adapted so I doubt we will experience the carb-flu again. Brewer, what do you think? Taubes recommends (and I have read in another Atkins source previously) that to counter this carb-flu, we should intake more salt, even drinking a few cups a day of salted broth. Brewer--thoughts on this?

All right y'all. I resisted for a few weeks but I'm on the wagon now. Like I said before when I was considering temporarily giving up FODMAPs, I hate to throw food away (unless it's a piece of unnecessary tiramisu, which just did not need to be ingested) so my plan is to start LCHF after I have eaten the foods in my fridge that would not be considered low-carb (potatoes, butternut squash, apples, carrots, applesauce...)

[thegoldengrahamgirl]

Friends, I’m discouraged... 

 

Sometimes when I eat off-plan I have the mentality that I need to eat as much as I want, even after the feeling of satiety, because I’m going back to Whole 30 the next day and I won’t eat this food anymore.  What kind of advice do you girls have on avoiding this mentality, because the only thing it does is make me get into trouble by enabling myself to eat more?  I stopped at one piece.  Immediately and I’m saying immediately after I was done eating the pizza I wanted to go get ice cream.  This is another Pavlovian response, because my husband and I used to get Cold Stone ice cream often after dinner.  I didn’t even mention this to my husband for fear that he may have been into it.  Haha.  I told myself that no, I had agreed that this 1 slice of pizza was my pre-meditated choice to eat and nothing else.  So yeaaa, there were definitely some immediate cravings induced by my pizza intake.  I don’t think the salad alone, even with the cheese and creamy dressing, would have evoked this same response.  I’m glad I had the pizza, and I’m glad I’m back to the Whole 30 way of life this morning.  I didn’t notice any changes in my ability to bloat or have poor sleep, so that’s good, but I was fairly dehydrated before bed last night.  It’s strange--I can salt my Whole 30 foods and not become dehydrated, but if I eat something off-plan that is salty, BOOM dehydration city!  Anyone else feel this way about salt and dehydration?

 

Ali, first of all, hug for you.  I hope you are feeling encouraged now by the wonderful support you are getting here.  Remember, I was in a funk last week. I can relate to the discouragement!  Even though I haven't stepped on a scale, I've got my "test outfits" that aren't fitting well right now (I don't just do skinny jeans; I've got tops AND bottoms!).  But Laura said it very wisely - with all of the other good stuff going on, do you REALLY care about the measurement of gravitational pull on your body?  (I mean obviously you did - and I get it - I would too!).  But there are a host of reasons why it could be up (I liked Laura's point about intracellular swelling as cells pull in more glucose AND water).  And even if it was truly up due to real weight gain, it's still not the end of the world.  Your bodyweight is naturally going to fluctuate.  The real question is whether you want to drive yourself insane watching it fluctuate, or just stay off of the scale and focus on how you FEEL and PERFORM?  (This is hard for me too and why I'm contemplating getting away from the mirror.  Brewer has wisely chimed in that "being lean" is not necessarily the best goal for my health).

 

And I TOTALLY get the idea of eating past satiety because you know it's going to be off-limits again the next day (or next meal).  It's the restrict-rebel or deprive-binge cycle.  That was me on Dec 27th, eating crappy milk chocolate with abandon because I knew the next day the Whole30 would pull me to safety again.  For personalities like ours (abstainer), the best approach seems to be to NOT eat that. (And that's where the sadness comes in - NOT eating it.  NEVER.)  I've also read about moderators who work really hard to regularly eat small quantities of those foods so that they are NEVER off-limits and therefore not tempting to binge on.  But I can tell you that my foray into eating LCHF has got me NOT finishing even a single square of dark chocolate, even one that I PLANNED to eat (and tracked in my macros) because my satiety is so frickin' high right now.

 

I also get the cravings/Pavlovian response.  My corn reintro had me INSTANTLY wanting Diet Coke and ice cream because corn tortillas are associated with restaurant meals for me.  I also over-ate popcorn that night because it was "whole hog" reintro and if I'm going part-way, I'm going all the way, gosh darn it!  So now I'm treading very carefully around corn, because I just don't think that having to battle those cravings is worth it. 

 

You don't HAVE to consume dairy for LCHF.  It's very popular because full-fat dairy products are low-carb (and delicious!).  I'm doing LCHF with no dairy, relying instead on coconut products (mainly cream & oil, then milk, not so much butter because of its higher carb count), avocados, homemade mayo and olives.  And macadamia nuts, but I have to be careful with those.  Because, well, NUTS.  And my 85% dark chocolate (sweetened with unrefined cane sugar - yes, still sugar) packs a delicious LCHF punch.

 

Looking forward to continuing this journey with y'all! (I work with too many Texans).

 

(And I doubt I'll ever post my weight in here - I'm only 2 inches taller at 5'5" but I have way more pounds than what you'd think those 2 inches would warrant!).

[Alisonlcarver]

~ be a smart gal and recognize that any -- and I do mean ANY -- non-Whole 30 cravings you have over the next few days, can be directly linked back to the food you enjoyed (?) last night.

Already happening. Major blood sugar swings today and major cravings. I was fine this morning and into the afternoon, but around 5-6pm I started feeling hungry and hypoglycemic, a feeling that I haven't felt in a long time. It is not welcome.

It could have been worse, but I gave into the cravings and had a few spoonfuls of sunflower nut butter. I was making sunshine sauce and Paleo pad Thai, so the jar was right there. I probably had 3 spoonfuls. Then I thought fat. So I cracked open a jar of olives and had several. Then I chugged a glass of water. Man, this sucks. I feel hungry, craving, munchy, hypoglycemic, and not in control. It's like I was watching myself get another spoonful of nut butter and just didn't care.

No more gluten. Yeesh. This has been a rough day for me.

[littleg]

 

(And I doubt I'll ever post my weight in here - I'm only 2 inches taller at 5'5" but I have way more pounds than what you'd think those 2 inches would warrant!).

 

I win.  I'm 5'2" and I'm still heavier  They both weigh less than I did in HS - and I was fitting into my size 26 Z. Cavarriccis back then!  Remember these, those of you in HS in the early 90s?    WHAT were we thinking?!

 

[Brewer5]

Allison ~ I am not going to "like" that ^ post -- because I don't like it -- but I am so glad you are able to recognize what is happening.

 

I could sense your excitement, going out with your husband for pizza last night, and I could also predict what it was going to spark.  So I could not be happy for you.

 

It's awful.  And if you're not really in tune with what is going on.....  it can take days, weeks, months to climb out of.  

 

"It's like I was watching myself get another spoonful of nut butter and just didn't care."

 

^ EXACTLY. ^  That is the exact place I have been, and what I am trying to help you all avoid.  I really had no one to help me work through these things.  But every crappy lesson I've learned has served a purpose.  It's helped me, and now it can also help you all. 

[littleg]

Already happening. Major blood sugar swings today and major cravings. I was fine this morning and into the afternoon, but around 5-6pm I started feeling hungry and hypoglycemic, a feeling that I haven't felt in a long time. It is not welcome.

It could have been worse, but I gave into the cravings and had a few spoonfuls of sunflower nut butter. I was making sunshine sauce and Paleo pad Thai, so the jar was right there. I probably had 3 spoonfuls. Then I thought fat. So I cracked open a jar of olives and had several. Then I chugged a glass of water. Man, this sucks. I feel hungry, craving, munchy, hypoglycemic, and not in control. It's like I was watching myself get another spoonful of nut butter and just didn't care.

No more gluten. Yeesh. This has been a rough day for me.

 

I need a dislike button instead of a like button!

 

I always find myself extra hungry the day after a long hike/run.  As your mileage starts getting up there maybe try feeding this hunger with fat and see if it helps with the post-long-run-carb-munchies. 

[Brewer5]

Laura, I am literally LMAO about your pants.  I am SO glad I was in high school just a bit later than you.  I have never seen pants quite like those!      But maybe I was just really out-of-touch with "style".  That would not surprise me in the least.  (Class of 97 here).

 

And I do not weigh 109 now ---- that was a few years ago -- you know, working out 6-7 days per week, doing Beachbody workouts, eating pretty low fat and feeling like shizz -- oh, and hey, let's all not forget smoking!  Nicotine is quite the appetite suppressant.

 

And I'm not even going to say what I weigh now, because it doesn't matter.  I think the point is that I gained weight when switching to Paleo but I felt so much better, so I stuck with it.  And I also gained weight from gaining muscle.  Lots of it.     (I mean muscle.  Lol.  IRL.  KWIM?)

[Alisonlcarver]

I am so glad you are able to recognize what is happening.

 

It's awful.  And if you're not really in tune with what is going on.....  it can take days, weeks, months to climb out of.

You guys, I had dinner. Paleo pad Thai--may not have been the best idea since it involves nut butter. I'm pleasantly full. But I feel like I am going through withdrawal. I'm kindof shaking. Yeesh. What have I done? Over one slice of pizza no less!!

I know that one day can lead to more days, weeks, months, and longer of eating poorly. I am not going to let that happen, even though the only thing I can think of right now is a piece of cheesecake, Oreos, and making a batch of cookies.

Maybe I better put a rush on starting that LCHF thing...what do you guys think?

[SimpleNotEasy]

Hi girls - I just listened to the podcast Brewer & I have been talking about finding. I think y'all would enjoy it. This couple is bright & interesting & their story is quite compelling.

Brewer - lol - no payment necessary!!! We each give of our time & energy to support each other here.

[SimpleNotEasy]

Ali - so sorry you're feeling poorly! I think upping your fat & lowering your carbs right away is a superb idea.

It's amazing how much impact food can have on our bodies, isn't it? We know this from all we learned during our December W30's, but it's still so interesting to observe together.

[Brewer5]

Alison, I think there is no better time to make a food decision than when you are really pissed off about it and you feel like an addict.

Only YOU can decide if your fruit, nuts, butters, & starchy veggies helped you slay your sugar dragon.

[thegoldengrahamgirl]

Already happening. Major blood sugar swings today and major cravings. I was fine this morning and into the afternoon, but around 5-6pm I started feeling hungry and hypoglycemic, a feeling that I haven't felt in a long time. It is not welcome.

It could have been worse, but I gave into the cravings and had a few spoonfuls of sunflower nut butter. I was making sunshine sauce and Paleo pad Thai, so the jar was right there. I probably had 3 spoonfuls. Then I thought fat. So I cracked open a jar of olives and had several. Then I chugged a glass of water. Man, this sucks. I feel hungry, craving, munchy, hypoglycemic, and not in control. It's like I was watching myself get another spoonful of nut butter and just didn't care.

No more gluten. Yeesh. This has been a rough day for me.

This is (was?) the essence of a binge for me.  You're totally aware, totally in the moment but you DON'T CARE.  But boy, do you care after the fact!

 

I win.  I'm 5'2" and I'm still heavier  They both weigh less than I did in HS - and I was fitting into my size 26 Z. Cavarriccis back then!  Remember these, those of you in HS in the early 90s?    WHAT were we thinking?!

 

Lol, I think I was in elementary school when those pants were all the rage.  Bell-bottoms had come back in by the time I was in HS.  But yes, I was trying to remember a time when I weighed <120.  It was definitely high school.  I wasn't ALLOWED back on the swim team after my bout wit anorexia nervosa until I weighed AT LEAST 120 (or maybe it was 125 - I don't remember).  That was my weight to get UP TO, and after that I stopped weighing and didn't weigh again until my pregnancy over a decade later.  And then weighed regularly during IIFYM.

 

You guys, I had dinner. Paleo pad Thai--may not have been the best idea since it involves nut butter. I'm pleasantly full. But I feel like I am going through withdrawal. I'm kindof shaking. Yeesh. What have I done? Over one slice of pizza no less!!

I know that one day can lead to more days, weeks, months, and longer of eating poorly. I am not going to let that happen, even though the only thing I can think of right now is a piece of cheesecake, Oreos, and making a batch of cookies.

Maybe I better put a rush on starting that LCHF thing...what do you guys think?

I was hemming and hawing, too (I don't want to track, I don't have monitoring tools, I'm going on vacation in three weeks), yet here I am, eating 60-80% of my calories from fat and trying to get my daily carbs <50g.  I just fed the leftover roasted squash to my husband and son as part of a Whole30 pasta sauce recipe (except they ate it over quinoa because quinoa reintroduction day!).

 

[Alisonlcarver]

Alright I've come up with a plan...

I was very close to giving in earlier and having a good old fashioned sugar binge. I revisited my journal where I wrote down how bad sugar made me feel. I thought about tomorrow and how bad I would feel. I thought that although tonight could have been better, it could have been A LOT worse. I thought--just because I am having cravings and wanting to eat foods (and lots of it), that isn't the bad part...the bad part is actually giving in! I was successfully able to stop a potential binge in its tracks!

Here's my plan for the week:

I'm going to finish the foods in my fridge, even though I want to throw them away and start LCHF tomorrow. I just got groceries on Friday though, so I really don't want to throw away $100!

While I am clearing out my fridge over the week, I am going to look up more info on LCHF so that I can have a good plan of action on how to carry this out. I am looking into info online, and this site seems to be useful: http://www.ketogenic-diet-resource.com/low-carb-food-list.html

By Friday my fridge should be cleared out of all starches and fruits, and I will be more knowledgeable of LCHF. Then, I start on Friday morning!

[Brewer5]

He states that when going from a mainly carb-dense diet to a LCHF diet, people may experience the carb-flu as their bodies adapt to burning fat for fuel and living on ketones. I think we are all familiar with that, and are already fat-adapted so I doubt we will experience the carb-flu again. Brewer, what do you think? Taubes recommends (and I have read in another Atkins source previously) that to counter this carb-flu, we should intake more salt, even drinking a few cups a day of salted broth. Brewer--thoughts on this?

 

Alison, my experience first switching over to keto did involve some carb-flu...... even though I had already done two Whole 30's and also had been playing around with Carb Nite, which involves staying under 30 net carbs for a week at a time, and then having a re-feed.

 

Everyone's experience will be a bit different, as our bodies and situations are unique.  I encourage you to specifically search for runners who have set out to become keto-adapted.  Get a feel for what to expect.  My gut tells me that this adjustment may be similar to the questions I have seen here from runners, who have a hard time adjusting to Whole 30... but it all gets better after 2-3 weeks.

 

This is a link that I recommend often, and I think it would do you a lot of good to read it.   It's a little long... but very helpful.  At least read down to the part about supplements (and obviously read the whole thing if you are really interested):

 

https://proteinpower.com/drmike/2011/06/25/tips-tricks-for-starting-or-restarting-low-carb-pt-ii/

[thegoldengrahamgirl]

Brewer, this is fantastic.  It's got me thinking about potassium supplementation...

 

Also, I LOVED this: "You can lose a couple of pounds during sleep simply by breathing water vapor away." I KNEW I needed more sleep before I read this.  This is just the proverbial icing on the cake!

 

And this makes me feel much better about the challenges I was facing trying to do a Whole30+ through two rounds of antibiotics:  "Tylenol puts a major detoxification burden on the liver.  When you drink coffee, tea, and/or alcohol and take OTC meds, you occupy much of your liver’s detoxification capacity.  Which means it can’t get rid of insulin as well and can’t regulate metabolism in general as well as it does when it isn’t busily detoxing toxins."

 

It also re-affirms my recent discoveries about coffee.  YES, it has a mood-boosting effect for me on the few days per week that I drink it BUT drinking it any more often than that makes me shaky and causes headaches and digestive upset.  I do NOT want to drink it solely for the mood boost.  AND this is even more fuel for that fire, since I want to save my liver for insulin break-down, not de-toxing caffeine.

 

AND I had a good upper-body workout (!).  My strength is slowly returning.  Seriously I wish they would bottle and start selling patience. 

[Alisonlcarver]

This is a link that I recommend often, and I think it would do you a lot of good to read it.   It's a little long... but very helpful.  At least read down to the part about supplements (and obviously read the whole thing if you are really interested):

 

https://proteinpower.com/drmike/2011/06/25/tips-tricks-for-starting-or-restarting-low-carb-pt-ii/

 

 

It also re-affirms my recent discoveries about coffee.  YES, it has a mood-boosting effect for me on the few days per week that I drink it BUT drinking it any more often than that makes me shaky and causes headaches and digestive upset.  I do NOT want to drink it solely for the mood boost.  AND this is even more fuel for that fire, since I want to save my liver for insulin break-down, not de-toxing caffeine.

 

I read the part about caffeine being a toxin.  What about a little stimulant called theobromine? 

 

You know what, I am thinking about dramatically decreasing my intake of Crio Bru anyway, especially since I want to take out all of the foods that have a hold over me, including all of the off-plan foods, carbs, and anything addicting.  After how I felt last night, I am OVER IT!  Sometimes I have to get a little taste of the past before I'm ready to once again banish it and move forward in health.  One time in 45 days is not bad, especially since the only real damage was a few spoonfuls of sunflower nut butter.  It could have been SO much worse, but I don't want to feel like that again--craving, on the verge of a binge, and constantly talking myself out of eating whatever happens to be in the cabinet.

 

Alison, my experience first switching over to keto did involve some carb-flu...... even though I had already done two Whole 30's and also had been playing around with Carb Nite, which involves staying under 30 net carbs for a week at a time, and then having a re-feed.

 

Everyone's experience will be a bit different, as our bodies and situations are unique.  I encourage you to specifically search for runners who have set out to become keto-adapted.  Get a feel for what to expect.  My gut tells me that this adjustment may be similar to the questions I have seen here from runners, who have a hard time adjusting to Whole 30... but it all gets better after 2-3 weeks.

 

After reading that link you posted I am probably going to be salting my food more and drinking some salted broth in the first few days to weeks of going HFLC.

 

Alison, I think there is no better time to make a food decision than when you are really pissed off about it and you feel like an addict.

Only YOU can decide if your fruit, nuts, butters, & starchy veggies helped you slay your sugar dragon.

 

Oh, I'm pissed all right!  I'm going to do a lot of reading and research this week and figure out what fruits, veggies, and nuts are acceptable on LCHF.  I have a feeling that these foods aren't going to help me banish my carb cravings, and I am figuring out that some foods are NOT worth the consequences.  I plan to start LCHF on Friday after I do a little bit of research figuring out what the heck I'm getting myself into! 

 

P.S. Thanks so much for your help last night, ladies.  I was hurtin'!  I woke up this morning so happy with the way I was able to handle the craving.  Yes, I had some nut butter, but I realized what was going on and WHY, and stopped.  I was a little mad at myself for getting myself into that situation in the first place BUT I'm using it as a learning opportunity.

[whole30determined]

Thank you thegoldengrahamgirl for posting this forum on my posting of my own battle of the Sugar Dragon. I'm joining the team!  Today is what I am calling "Day 1 of Quitting Sugar Forever!".   I am not one of the people that can just have one bite and walk away.  I can't get enough of anything sweet.  So even fruits, nut butters, nuts...those are so not healthy for me either.   Let's just say, today my head is already foggy and I feel so shaky. Like, very anxious.   This is after coming off a good 2 weeks of solid sugar loading, so my body is in shock. Luckily I've done Whole30 before so I know what to expect, and I know this detox feeling won't last.  

 

I'm also giving up coffee and switching to tea instead.  My coffee was stevia, coconut oil and coconut milk....a nice frothy sweet treat in the morning.  Anything that triggers my sugar dragon has got to go.  

 

So glad to be part of this group!  It's great to know I'm not alone.   And to know that there are some of us that just can't have "just one bite" of any sugar-forms.   So, I'm marking 2016 as the year that I chose to QUIT sugar once and for all.  Now I'm just mad at sugar and I want to banish it from every wrecking havoc on my life again.   The "white poison" is no longer welcome in this body of mine.   

 

Glad to be part of the group!   

[Alisonlcarver]

whole30determined--welcome to the group!  The sugar withdrawals suck but it'll get better.  Since you've done Whole 30's in the past, you know that.  This group is all very supportive and helpful to one another.  We all did December Whole 30's and became good friends, even though we don't live close to one another and have very different backgrounds.  It makes such a difference when you have someone to hold you accountable other than yourself, who will not allow any enabling!  A lot of us in this group are actually coming to the conclusion that low-carb, high-fat (LCHF or keto) is the way to go for us.  It's an individual and personal choice so it is interesting to me that several of us in this group are embarking on the keto journey.  I start my journey on Friday.  I can hardly wait!

 

If you really wanna get pissed off at sugar watch "That Sugar Film."  I think it's $.99 on Amazon.com for a 1-day rental.  Eye-opening.  After I watched that movie I didn't even want to eat ketchup or salad dressing with sugar in it anymore, much less cakes and cookies.  Let us know what you think of it.

[Brewer5]

And I did not do a Whole 30 in December.  I've been riding my own bike for about a year now, with no further need for actual "Whole 30's".  

 

I've been requested to be here for info and support on their journeys.  

[Alisonlcarver]

whole30determined--During our December Whole 30's, Sara's Whole 30 log contained some interesting information regarding moderator vs. abstainer.  Check it out here if you want: http://forum.whole30.com/topic/32557-simplenoteasys-whole-30-log-december-2015/