What am I doing wrong? Day 18 and no Tiger Blood

[LindaLee]

I'm on day 18 and nary a hint of Tiger Blood in sight. I've been following the template of a good protein (venison, chicken, eggs, or salmon cakes) plus lots of veggies (squash, turnips, cauliflower rice, sweet potatoes, mixed with some greens like broccoli and spinach). I'm trying to limit nuts since they don't always play nice with me, so I don't have more than one serving per day. I try to have avocado or Whole30 may instead, or MCT oil in a pinch. I've limited my fruits to apples or berries. I rarely snack and I haven't been doing pre and postworkout meals because my workouts are relatively low intensity. 

Breakfast today was Melissa's chicken hash, cauliflower/sweet potato rice, carrots, and half an avocado.

Lunch was yellow squash, turnips, ground venison, and sweet potatoes, plus some applesauce.

Dinner was wild pork tenderloins and sweet potatoes with Whole30 mayo.

Right now, I'm just not hungry. I can workout but they're not great and I'm pretty tired afterward. 

My sugar demon was pretty out of control, so I don't expect to be turning cartwheels after just one round, but I just wonder what I'm doing wrong. Am I not eating enough? I feel full at most meals but then wake up hungry in the morning. 

This is my third round in the last 7 years and I tend to either be Whole30 or a complete mess (though I haven't had gluten or much dairy since my very first one back in 2013). I'm just feeling discouraged. I'm not going to quit because this is the best decision for my health, but dang. Today has been a rough day. 

[Jim Baunach]

On 12/12/2019 at 4:54 PM, LindaLee said:

I'm on day 18 and nary a hint of Tiger Blood in sight.

@LindaLee What do you mean by Tiger Blood?

Thanks.

Jim

[Jihanna]

I didn't see Tiger Blood until day 21 my first round, and it didn't look like the Tiger Blood that's described in so many of the reviews I had read... so that's the first thing I'll say here, that Tiger Blood comes in many shapes and sizes, and yours might not look like mine and both of ours could be different to what we've seen others post about online! (I live daily with bipolar disorder but am on meds to keep it under control; my tiger blood actually felt like mania, and in fact I was worried half the day that's what was happening, until I realized that I wasn't also experiencing the negative things that go along with my manic episodes. It definitely was not boundless energy, though, and it didn't hang around for days on end.)

Second thought here is that while you're giving us a rundown of WHAT you're eating, there's no indication of HOW MUCH you eat, apart from things like "half an avocado" or "some applesauce". In a general sense, though, if you're feeling satisfied when finished with a meal and you're able to go 5ish hours to the next, then I'd imagine the amount of intake is probably appropriate for you. It could be worth seeing if something in what you're eating could still be causing problems for you, though, especially if you haven't seen truly positive results by the end of your round. (As example, I have to be careful with how much I eat of things like broccoli, cauliflower, cabbage, and other cruciferous veggies because they tend to leave me feeling bloated.)

Third, waking up hungry isn't a bad thing, especially since the Whole30 ideal is to eat within an hour of waking.

Lastly, take a gander at the updated Tiger Blood 101 post to see that even the "official definition" has changed over time, since not everyone actually experiences the insane energy we tend to equate to the term.  

[LindaLee]

I follow the template - palm size serving of protein surrounded by veggies (usually squash, sweet potatoes, and something green a portion of fat (avocado or homemade mayo) and a serving of fruit, like a handful of blueberries.

[Madeline368]

@LindaLee did you have any health issues before starting by chance?  I have often read that if you start with any chronic conditions, it can take longer to get the benefits of the program.  I have heard it recommended to do a whole 45 or even 60 if you find yourself needing extra time to feel better.  

[Jihanna]

2 hours ago, Jim Baunach said:

@Jihanna Whole30 has no rules regarding how much you eat.

There's no rule about how much to eat, but there ARE recommendations (which you already know from another thread) and the idea is to eat enough so that you're able to go a handful of hours between meals -- and I personally find that HOW MUCH I eat (or don't) will play a very large part in how I feel overall, including whether or not I experience my body's version of Tiger Blood. Whenever any poster is requesting input and gives a list of what's eaten, it's always easier to give feedback when we can see amounts.

Regarding "insane" energy, I'm speaking of how the original idea of what Tiger Blood was is that a switch would "flip" around day 16 for many people, and they'd have a ton of energy and feel awesome and so on. The point of my post was to assure Linda that it's not necessarily an accurate description of what she'll experience, and to share the updated information about Tiger Blood.

Breakfast (meal 1) within an hour of waking is recommended in It Starts With Food, and also quite often recommended by the mods when people are having issues and aren't eating fairly soon after waking. There are plenty of places throughout the forum where it's recommended and even an old archived one explaining the reason behind the recommendation.

[Jim Baunach]

3 hours ago, Jihanna said:

There's no rule about how much to eat, but there ARE recommendations

@Jihanna Seems like whole30 is not as simple as advertised with all these recommendations that should be followed.

[laura_juggles]

12 minutes ago, Jim Baunach said:

@laura_juggles Dear Laura, I'm not fighting literally every single answer that people give me.  I'm just asking questions for clarification and to get to the truth.  I'm sorry to disagree with you, but if I have to read a whole book in order to understand the program, it is not quite as simple as I had thought.  Thanks.  Jim

If you only read the rules, of which there are 8, you can have quite a successful Whole30 experience. 8 rules. That's it. If you start thinking about those 8 rules overmuch, then it starts to get complicated because you're making it complicated. 
 

The recommendations are just that. Recommendations. They were designed to help people have an even better experience, based on what hundreds and thousands of people have done in the past. But it's not to say that you will "fail" if you don't follow every single recommendation as well. They just help make it better. 

The books give you added information, which you seem to really want. It doesn't mean that the 8 rules are complicated. It just means that you want more information. Perhaps a deeper understanding of why legumes, or grains, or dairy, or whatever are not permitted by the rules. But if you don't care to know why and you just want it simple, then "no legumes, ok, done". 

You ask for more information, repeatedly, and then say that you want the program to be simple. If you want simple - https://whole30.com/whole30-program-rules/ the rules are there. 

[Jim Baunach]

@laura_juggles Hi Laura.  Thanks for the response.  The rules are short, but maybe not so simple for me as a beginner.  One rule is no grains, but I still don't know how to tell if a seed is a grain (only if something is either a seed or a grain).  As far as I understand, Canola is made from a seed, not a grain, so it is allowed.  But then you said "Canola is allowed when you're eating outside the home".  The strict "allowed" language sounds like a rule that it is allowed only when eating outside the home.  So then I had a follow up question asking, according to that rule, as long as I eat out all the time, I can have canola oil all the time?  But you never responded.  So I am left in confusion.

Additionally, it is all the "recommendations" that are worrisome.  I don't want to have finished my Whole30 strictly following the rules, but without any results and then have people say, "Well, did you follow all the recommendations?".  That would defeat the purpose of the supposed simplicity of Whole30.  My Whole30 that I'm starting tomorrow will take a lot of effort, so I want to make sure I'm doing it right and it is not a waste of time.

Thanks.

Jim

[ladyshanny]

Hi Jim, 

Canola is permitted when eating out so if every single meal you eat is out then it would be unavoidable and that is a concession Whole30 has made in order to make it achievable for people. If you are cooking at home then no canola.

Recommendations are basically levelling up. To do the Whole30 all you have to do is eat only Whole30 compliant food for 30 days. If you chose to eat almond butter and dates exclusively for 30 days, that would technically be a Whole30.   If you desire to slay a sugar dragon, improve sleep, correct emotional eating and any other habits or food relationship issues, you can follow our recommendations which will give you best results. Some recommendations that you will see made here are based on thousands of people's results. Things like not eating fruit on its own, moving starchy veggies to the evening meal to improve sleep and cravings are items that we have discovered along the way that tend to help people. Do them if you want, don't do them if you don't.

[slc_melissa]

Is there something you think is a grain that is not on this list in the Whole30 Program Rules? 

 

 

You were already linked to the http://whole9life.com/2013/02/grain-manifesto/ in another thread, and you may have missed this part:

And yes, since canola oil is technically compliant in an eating-out situation, then it follows yes, you could have canola oil all the time if all you do is eat out. 

You could also eat nothing but compliant bacon for 30 straight days and technically have done a Whole30.  You could eat nothing but almonds for 30 straight days and technically have a done a Whole30.  This website has a lot of free resources that you can adapt into your own life for your own goals as needed.  If you need more specific guidance, consider a Whole30 coach: https://coach.whole30.com/coaches/

[Jim Baunach]

7 hours ago, ladyshanny said:

If you desire to slay a sugar dragon, improve sleep, correct emotional eating and any other habits or food relationship issues, you can follow our recommendations

@ladyshanny so what can I hope to achieve by doing a technically compliant Whole30, but without following the recommendations?

Thanks.

Jim

[Jim Baunach]

7 hours ago, slc_melissa said:

Is there something you think is a grain that is not on this list in the Whole30 Program Rules? 

@slc_melissa Yes, I think there is a grain that is not on that list in the rules because it says it "is not limited to" those grains listed.

7 hours ago, slc_melissa said:

You could also eat nothing but compliant bacon for 30 straight days and technically have done a Whole30.  

@slc_melissa Yep, I know, and it's great! That's what drew me to Whole30 in the first place - the simplicity of it and that I love bacon.  So I plan to eat Whole30 compliant bacon every day while on Whole30 (along with eggs).

Thanks.

Jim

[ladyshanny]

7 hours ago, Jim Baunach said:

@ladyshanny so what can I hope to achieve by doing a technically compliant Whole30, but without following the recommendations?

Thanks.

Jim

That's the fun of experimenting. Since you are a unique individual, we cannot possibly guess what results you may have. Do a compliant Whole30 just following the rules and see how you feel. Then do one following the recommendations and see how you feel. Or do half and half. Experiment. You tell us what the difference is for you.

[laura_juggles]

6 hours ago, Jim Baunach said:

@slc_melissa Yes, I think there is a grain that is not on that list in the rules because it says it "is not limited to" those grains listed.

@slc_melissa Yep, I know, and it's great! That's what drew me to Whole30 in the first place - the simplicity of it and that I love bacon.  So I plan to eat Whole30 compliant bacon every day while on Whole30 (along with eggs).

Thanks.

Jim

I have a possibly radical idea to completely simplify this whole "is it a grain or is it a seed" issue since it is a major sticking point for you. 

Don't eat any seeds during your Whole30. They're not necessary and are clearly causing you stress. 

We have provided a plethora of resources to help you on this grain conundrum and apparently none of them are sufficient. So "simplify" it and just don't eat seeds at all. It'd probably even give you better results anyway. 

[slc_melissa]

Jim-

You are correct, there are a bunch of plants not listed.  There are approximately 12,000 species of grasses.  And that doesn't even cover the similar-structured pseudo grains.  Instead of listing 12,000 plants, how about we go off the short list that covers ~99.8% of the grains/pseudo-grains commercially and commonly available for the demographic markets that are likely to be doing a Whole30?  If you happen to come across the edible seed of a plant that you suspect might be a grass, figure that one thing out instead of 12,000 things.  It's completely ridiculous to think there is going to be a "simple" list that covers every possible plant.

[Jim Baunach]

 

5 hours ago, laura_juggles said:

Don't eat any seeds during your Whole30.

@laura_juggles It's not the sees themselves, but the oil that is made from the seeds.

[Jim Baunach]

2 hours ago, slc_melissa said:

It's completely ridiculous to think there is going to be a "simple" list that covers every possible plant.

@slc_melissa That's correct, which is why I went to this forum to ask how one can tell if a seed is a grain.

Thanks.

Jim

[laura_juggles]

@Jim Baunach There are thousands of grasses, but a limited number of seeds that are turned into cooking oil. 

You have a very powerful tool at your fingertips: the internet. When you're looking at a package of some food product and it says it has pumpkin seed oil in it, you can go to the mighty google and type "Whole30 pumpkin seed oil". Then you'll get an answer (likely from here in the forum). 

Again, to simplify, you can just leave off those seeds and their oils for your Whole30. They're not necessary. For cooking, you can use coconut oil, olive oil, ghee, avocado oil. 

Step back. Take a breath. You are making this so much more complicated than it needs to be. 

[LindaLee]

22 hours ago, ladyshanny said:

 

Recommendations are basically levelling up. To do the Whole30 all you have to do is eat only Whole30 compliant food for 30 days. If you chose to eat almond butter and dates exclusively for 30 days, that would technically be a Whole30.   If you desire to slay a sugar dragon, improve sleep, correct emotional eating and any other habits or food relationship issues, you can follow our recommendations which will give you best results. Some recommendations that you will see made here are based on thousands of people's results. Things like not eating fruit on its own, moving starchy veggies to the evening meal to improve sleep and cravings are items that we have discovered along the way that tend to help people. Do them if you want, don't do them if you don't.

I found some of the recommendations from your link...but where might I find the one about the starchy carbs, eating breakfast within an hour of waking, and so forth? I'm well familiar with the rules, having done 4 Whole30s now, but would like to "level up," as you say. Thank you!

[ladyshanny]

21 minutes ago, LindaLee said:

I found some of the recommendations from your link...but where might I find the one about the starchy carbs, eating breakfast within an hour of waking, and so forth? I'm well familiar with the rules, having done 4 Whole30s now, but would like to "level up," as you say. Thank you!

These are the things that over the many years of working on this forum have helped members correct issues or improve their program. They aren't official recommendations, just suggestions that folks may want to try.

[LindaLee]

I wanted to give everyone an update. I made it through my Whole30 without problems but without huge changes in my body composition or energy. I've been working with some functional medicine docs and after a battery of blood, urine, and food sensitivity tests, it's possible I am sensitive to sweet potatoes and chicken...which I pretty much live on during my Whole30s. Now I know all the arguments about food sensitivity tests, but what I'm doing right now is an elimination diet without those 2 staples to see if that makes a difference. It does appear highly likely that I have "leaky gut" and autoimmune issues that have been exacerbated by my Sugar Demon and the stress of marathon training for the last 2 years. So we're working on resetting my system at the moment, which still includes primarily whole foods and vegetables, though I'm reintroducing rice to see if that is a problem. My biggest goal is to keep the added sugars away (read: no gluten-free cookies or coconut milk ice cream) until we get through the 45 day elimination. I am hoping that retesting may indicate that the sensitivity on the test was a reflection of my usual consumption, and I'll be able to reintroduce chicken and potatoes at some point. If I truly am sensitive to potatoes and chicken, though, that certainly would explain why a Whole30 hasn't made me feel markedly better. However, I always am grateful to my Whole30s for giving me some freedom over my Sugar Demon.

[LindaLee]

8 minutes ago, ladyshanny said:

These are the things that over the many years of working on this forum have helped members correct issues or improve their program. They aren't official recommendations, just suggestions that folks may want to try.

Is there a place where that helpful information is gathered, by any chance?